Mentor Players Kicking newer players from Duty Ques for low DPS

[Daniolaut]

Kicking a player for "low dps" in an area where there are no "DPS checks" (or rather dps checks are in fact being met) ...

(which a lack of regular content having dps checks, and endgame having tight dps checks, is the leading cause of why people cant clear endgame content. I.E. a serious design flaw...)

... is 100% unjustifiable.






Now, if you were arguing with the party members (which you say you were not) then even more so unjustifiable.

When I first returned from a break a month or more after Heavensward was released, I also was kicked twice, except I was given no reason. In fact, I have cleared many endgame fights prior to echo being introduced, and most shortly after they were released (within 1-2 weeks) as multiple different jobs. So to say its because of "low dps" is nonsense.

If you cant be bothered to give a dungeon an extra 10-20 more minutes because someone is new and trying to gear up their job, you shouldnt be bothered to queue up through duty finder. Make a pre-made if you're that absolutely "in a rush."

Also, you dont need to "look up guides" when the guides mentioned are all derived from simply reading the skills descriptions and deciding which actions go where in a string of combos. This is extremely simple to determine. Time is the only thing that makes you more efficient at deciding which actions to place where under certain circumstances, as any "guide" is only going to show one string, that does not fit for all scenarios, thus are a waste of time.

Lastly, if youre that impatient, you shouldnt be a mentor. If you cant take the time to wait, and teach, new players are going to flat out quit, and this type of attitude drives off veteran players (including myself) to also quit, because I will absolutely not be bothered to deal with that kind of attitude.

People who support vote kicking, and justify bad mouthing people who are still learning, or simply doing things in different ways, even if they are more successful, but dont equate to the highest damage, clearly have forgotten you once were undergeared, and learning your job.






You accomplish nothing by bad mouthing players or vote kicking them, except halting their advancement in gear acquisition, learning their job, and often times, encouraging them to flat out quit.

[Isala]

You accomplish nothing by bad mouthing players or vote kicking them, except halting their advancement in gear acquisition, learning their job, and often times, encouraging them to flat out quit.

And that mentality is part of the problem. Why shouldn't we vote kick players who refuse to put in the effort? We're not expecting players to pull the top percentile damage. Nobody expects that. But why should it EVER be okay for one person to hold a group hostage by playing so subpar you add "20 extra minutes" to a dungeon that only takes 20 minutes in the first place? We're not talking Tam-Tara here. We're talking level 60 content, when people should know their crap by 50. It was the previous max level, and you frankly SHOULD be expected to care by then. To get through all that content, and still be terrible? You're not even trying, and you fully deserve every kick you receive.

[Daniolaut]

You're not even trying, and you fully deserve every kick you receive.

Someone who joined the game in 2014 *should* have more experience with 1-50 actions/leveling methods/gil acquisition/yada yada.

Someone who joined 1-2 months ago, is only going to have experience with 1-60 story content, and some dungeons/trials along the way, with which they partied with people most likely at *cap* item level, not *minimum* item level.

but

not even trying.

terrible.

and

deserve every kick.

Absurd.

The only reason the dungeon takes 20 minutes in the first place, is because it was introduced when most people were at item level 250-260 or even 270, but the dungeon itself is granting 245 gear... meaning its actual design is meant for a lower item level than 245.

[Isala]

Absurd.

The only reason the dungeon takes 20 minutes in the first place, is because it was introduced when most people were at item level 250-260 or even 270, but the dungeon itself is granting 245 gear... meaning its actual design is meant for a lower item level than 245.

You and I obviously have a different metric for terrible. I'm talking players doing sub-500 DPS level bad. As you can literally do that spamming Blizzard, and ONLY Blizzard as a BLM, or nothing but Heavy Shot as a BRD, and this is back when I tested it during the i230 gearings, BTW... You literally are NOT TRYING. I'm talking players who sit there and stare at monsters, instead of doing anything. Because that's the only way to add an additional 20 minutes, because even hitting one button over, and over and over again, will still add enough DPS to push the dungeon along. And yes, those players do deserve every Votekick. I'm not playing this game so they can come into a dungeon, watch Netflix, and hit a button every 30 seconds.

And for the record, for sheer understanding of where I'm coming from to judge such players. A completely naked BRD, wearing only a 230 weapon, can push 550 DPS, if they know their rotation. If you're going to tell me that it's "unreasonable" to expect people to out DPS a naked character? There's a problem.

[Alleo]

Kicking a player for "low dps" in an area where there are no "DPS checks" (or rather dps checks are in fact being met) ...

... is 100% unjustifiable.

You accomplish nothing by bad mouthing players or vote kicking them, except halting their advancement in gear acquisition, learning their job, and often times, encouraging them to flat out quit.

You know in dungeons without any DPS check at all I will not kick anyone..at least if they attacking..if someone is just standing around and doing nothing at all they will be kicked as fast as possible. But the dungeon the OP was in is Sohr Khai. This dungeon has DPS checks on two bosses. A very good healer might be able to heal the group through the horse without any walls left (and believe me I had those situations too and it was not really a nice fight). At the end boss if you have bad DPS you will lose all platforms and die.

We do not know how bad/good the OP was. Nobody does which means that we only can guess. Maybe it was completely mean to kick them but maybe they were just so bad that people saw that they wont manage to beat the bosses? On top of that they did not have cross class skills which you can see if you take a look into the profile and see if they have leveled the class or not and they also wore the wrong gear which you can also see if you inspect the people. Maybe the trash pulls were dieing so slowly that the mentor noticed that the dps is low. The OP wrote it like this was said to no one specific so the mentor seemed to either not know who was the one doing less or was only noticing that something was wrong (which you can do really fast without any parser if you did the dungeons often enough). The OP spoke that it might be them because they are new and low geared (maybe nothing would have happened if they did not say that?) and after that they got a kick.

First: He/She does not even know if its the mentor that started the kick. Just because they were the one that wrote it first does not mean its them. Maybe another checked their gear after the mentor said it and started the kick?
Second: There has to be at least another person in there that clicked yes, so at least for another person it was way to low. Since you can only queue for mentor roulette solo it could not have been a friend.
Third: The exact same thing happens again after that with other people..isnt that a bit strange? Doesnt that hint that maybe its really the OPs fault?

In the end I barely kick people and they really need to be either afk or we wont be able to finish the dungeon with them, for me to kick them. (I am not talking about taking 20 minutes more..I am meaning not finishing at all) I am quite sure that the time of three people is more valuable in that situation than the one that got kicked. Especially in a lvl 60 dungeon..nobody that is there can really say that they are new. And if its clear that they are just not ready for it than I see no problem with kicking them. The dungeons/trials after that will be even harder..especially after Sohr Khai and carrying them through one dungeon means that there will be a high chance that they are carried through the others as well. Getting kicked might not be the nicest feeling in the world (but also not the end of it) but maybe this will give some the motivation to look at themselves and maybe get better.

And just to be clear..since some people seems to thing that we want people playing on raid tier level..this is not the case and I am not sure how some read it that way. There is still quite the nice middle ground between raid tier DPS and not passing DPS checks.

I know I'm only lvl 48 but I can honestly say I have never got in an argument, got kicked, or kicked someone. People should be able to play the way they want to play. I just don't get why someone would complain in roulette. You know your gonna get matched with people of all gear lvl and all skill lvl's. if you want to speed run shouldn't you do the dungeons in your own group.

Well you are still in the leveling process which often means that people are way more forgiving for mistakes or bad numbers. The problem is that saying that everyone should play how they want means that you will than be okay with people only hitting auto-attack..or those bad ice mages BLM. If you have such DDs in your group some dungeons turns from taking longer to not able to finish them at all. And nobody wants to waste 90 minutes of their life for nothing. [Or having healers that only use one spell for healing as the healer in the vault. ]

And yes as soon as you go into duty finder you will meet different kinds of people and play styles but this goes for both sides. If you want to speedrun and you land in a group were three other people want to take their time..well you either take your time or you can go. Because in the duty finder you will have to do it the way how the majority of your group wants it. But that also means that if you land in a group that wants to speedrun it and you cant keep up or just dont feel like it..well either follow the majority or you might have to leave. (The GMs did say that a difference in playstyle is a reason to kick someone, even if some might abuse it)

Also the argument about going with friends can always be said to the other side too. If you dont want to speedrun, do big pull or other things that probably the majority of the duty finder groups wants, well one can always run with friends. I for example would not go into duty finder as a tank. I am really bad at this and I am also far away from being comfortable with it. I would never go in a dungeon with strangers because I dont want to waste their time.

What I want to say with my big wall of text: People should try to consider both sides. New people should maybe ask themselves if they are truly ready for the next dungeon/trial be it skill/equipment and veteran players should not try to kick someone for making some mistakes. And always try to be nice and explain your reason.

But also really important imo: If you are at lvl60 and in HW story content please stop using the "I am new"card to explain your mistakes. If you are new to the dungeon and did not know the mechanics than normally people will not hate you for it. (Most people, I would say, will only get annoyed if you make those mistakes again and again, like learning nothing from them) But if you are at lvl60 and just simply bad at your job dont try to defend yourself with "this is my first class". Everyone that is at that level has quite some hours behind them and if you only have one class at 60, that also means that you should be used to it at least a bit at that max level. Try to look at yourself, ask yourself if this is truly good enough and maybe train to get better. This makes things way easier for everyone.

[Juicinators]

There's a different between someone hitting auto attack and someone just not knowing what they are doing. I would say most people that just go in to dungeons and hit random buttons are mainly playing for fun. I am ok with that. All I'm saying is we all can't expect everyone to be on the same lvl in roulette. And I will never get mad or upset if I get a bad group. It also probably helps that I will never know if any other class is playing great cause I only have time to learn one. As long as mobs are dieing and no ones dieing than I really don't care. If we just couldn't finish I would see if the group wanted to disband and re-que. I wouldn't kick someone for it.