Integrating Crafting and Gathering. Ideas?

[Shurrikhan]

Admittedly my crafting and gathering class progression on this character are far from having an educated standpoint (only one even level capped), but I some of the annoyances and concerns I have with either system personally I have also heard from many another player in-game, namely that the two systems feel more disjointed and grindy than they ought to.

As such, I was wondering if those of you who enjoy crafting and gathering or, like me, would very much like to enjoy crafting and gathering (but can't quite), had any ideas on how crafting and/or gathering could be more closely and enjoyably integrated into the overall gaming experience?

For instance, would this mean creating some amount of experience overlap, such as when using weapons you personally made? Should there be experience gains from creating materia out of your own stuff? Should gathering nodes be spread over more zones and over more than just a couple loops per mineable/loggable zone? Should gathering gear even really be a thing, or does it make it impossible to place gathering nodes in truly dangerous areas? Could "Stealth" be better?

Through ideas as crazy or simple as you like, how would you more closely and enjoyably integrate crafting and gathering into the overall game experience?

[TallonOverworld]

As a fisher i enjoyed every moment from lvl 1 to 60 mainly because i like fishing irl as well so i had +1 reason to start with it.
Regarding ideas to improve it, i've been thinking the possibility that we could fish inside dungeons for example in sastasha for 1-2-3 special fish living there and also if we could fish as a group with a (crafted) boat or single boat. Fishing away from the shore in general. Weather-wise besides the normal conditions (storm-clear etc) i would like to see the intoduction of full moon weather where we could literally fish under a decent moonlight.

[Driavna]

I would love to have my own workshop with employees to reduce annoying steps like craft 20 hq ingots for example, something similar to SwG and manufacturing system. (http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Manufacturing)

[Solarra]

I would love to have my own workshop with employees to reduce annoying steps like craft 20 hq ingots for example

Oh please, no!
When WoW introduced this type of thing I lost all interest in crafting in that game. I hated both options, either putting an order in and then having to wait until the next day (or whenever it was) or watching my character stand around in the workshop like a lemon while an NPC crafted for me.
I've no experience of SWG but nothing I read in that link really excites me or makes me feel that is what crafting in FF is missing.

I'm not entirely happy with the direction it went with in HW, but crafting in FFXIV is still fun and engaging. Making it something that happens 'offstage' or disconnected from your character feels like entirely the wrong direction to go.
There's quicksynth for the dull stuff; you can go make a cup of tea while that's going on if you don't want to sit and watch it, that's enough for me.


OP: Sorry, no real suggestions for you. I actually don't mind gathering and crafting as they are, although I agree about the grind. It felt excessive in HW, and compared to ARR, levelling both crafting and gathering was fairly painful (I started playing in HW so I didn't have the best gear or tools). I really struggled to level from 50 to 52 and it felt like there was no real catch up for crafters and gatherers who hadn't got their Lucis tools and the best ARR gear. In contrast the battleclass gear was so good, levelling my main was a breeze.
I sincerely hope that Stormblood doesn't continue with the horrendous amount of materials needed to make as single item, like an ingot or piece of lumber or continue putting levelling materials onto hidden or timed nodes. Specialisation needs a thorough overhaul too. But beyond that, I've no real issues.

TLDR I don't really feel the 'disconnect' between gathering and crafting that you are feeling.

[Shurrikhan]

TLDR I don't really feel the 'disconnect' between gathering and crafting that you are feeling.

I apologize if I was unclear; what I meant was that it felt to me like (subject) crafting and gathering (both, together) missed opportunities to better connect or integrate themselves into (object) the overall game experience.

Take gathering for instance. By requiring a completely separate class and separate gear stats their are very few places that SE was willing to develop gathering nodes, and even then it relies on the crutch of a very unimaginative "Stealth" mechanic as not to come in further conflict with battlecraft spacial needs (i.e. having monsters). Because of this, there is virtually no sense of exploration involved in gathering, as it is limited to more or less exact locations (+/- some 8 meters up or down the cliff face or around a large rock), in exact loops, and only in certain zones—all because it put its design, and therefore needs, in conflict with the needs of other disciplines. By no means is this an issue with Gathering designs alone—to me it signals design issues on an overarching level—but they are probably the discipline most obviously affected.

Alternatively, look at crafting, which is dependant on far more cross-class skills than the Battle/Magic (or obviously Land) Disciplines. Despite an Armorer requiring barely refined pieces from Leatherworker, Weaver, Alchemist, or more, just to make a pair of plated boots, and despite that those pieces would still likely require skill in their respective class to even affix to the larger whole, all leveling is absolutely separate; for stitching together the actual boot out of leather, hardening it thereafter, firmly adhering the sole, stamping in the designs, and adding the trim, the Armorer receives only "a higher nominal offset/input on strange RNG calculations" for Armorer alone.

<Workshops> "Please not like WoW's"

Let me throw out an alternative to the "workshop" idea, since I too have a staunch dislike of any take on "offscreen" crafting that would seem like WoW's garrison crafting. Guilds. Making crafting guilds matter. While to really pull this off, one might actually need a living NPC economy, let's just look at the side-effects that such could produce for now, if guilds were involved in this, namely the hierarchical allotment of tasks (assigned at labor + guild values). At a glance, this would simply be an alternative to crafting leves, but in practice, this also allows more advanced crafters to delegate tasks, be that to NPCs or players, letting them borrow materials, or quoting a price over to a gathering guild for x amount of material to be later used, to be turned into refined ingredients reserved for your later use. The guild, in turn, by specific mechanic or through living economy AI, would be buying additional materials to be used by their own crafters, the excess (if only a mechanic, the whole) of which can be purchased at guild price or for guild currency (alike to favor exchange) to replace wasted ingredients, etc., the deposit for which can be required before accepting another's materials.

[Dzian]

The connection I really want to see is in the crafting and gathering logs..

Lets say for example I look up a Teak necklace of slaying recipe.

what you can currently do is search the crafting log for ingrediants. so I seach the log for teak lumber. it then tells me I need teak logs for example.

what i'd love is to be able to search for those in the gathering log from in that window.. thus opening the gathering log and telling me where I can obtain those logs the same way as I was able to search for the lumber recipe from the necklace...

presently its a bit of a chore having to constantly chop and change logs when working out what you need to make something

that would be an amazing integration. and also some forward and back buttons...

so if I gone to the necklace and then searched the lumber recipe I can quickly tap back and go back to the necklace without having to mess around

[Shadygrove]

I would love to have my own workshop with employees to reduce annoying steps like craft 20 hq ingots for example, something similar to SwG and manufacturing system. (http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Manufacturing)

Do you use crafting macros?

They tired to integrate crafting and gathering better in 1.x by letting you start as any class at all. I took an alt to 20+ as CRP. It didn't really integrate them better, but gave more variety.

[vigioX-Sun]

Regarding the auto craft stuff remember that we alrdy got macros an retainers, anything else an I just feel is gonna kill man labor an effect the economy, it's like having RTM destroying the market value.

[SnugglesD]

I'm with you, but every attempt they've made in the past resulted in an overwhelming majority of non crafters/gatherers raising hell. The crafted ingredients for anima, materials melding for pve gear, gathering in diadem etc. Lots of salt and butt hurt went around. At the end of the day, if crafting has any crossover with the rest of the game, the forums will explode in whining.

[Shurrikhan]

Do you use crafting macros?

They tired to integrate crafting and gathering better in 1.x by letting you start as any class at all. I took an alt to 20+ as CRP. It didn't really integrate them better, but gave more variety.

For me, probably the easiest help to "integration" 1.x gave was that I didn't need to make a new gear set every few levels; instead I could use the higher level piece I was already using for my main crafter which was "optimal" for the higher level, but still usable at a synced, slightly below optimal, stat value for levels beneath the "optimal". Given that each piece took about three times as many steps to make back then (though thereby drawing far more exp from a single set of raw materials), that was quite a life-saver. I can understand ARR's removal of "optimal" level requirements (downward-syncing gear) in place of "hard" level requirements (non-syncing gear) to a degree, but the amount of inventory space it's cost us amid a non glamour-heavy game is rather painful. And that's to say nothing of when there were only stats and armor classes, rather than strictly required classes to equip a piece of armor (as with late 50+ armor).