Integrating Crafting and Gathering. Ideas?

[Solarra]

I would love to have my own workshop with employees to reduce annoying steps like craft 20 hq ingots for example

Oh please, no!
When WoW introduced this type of thing I lost all interest in crafting in that game. I hated both options, either putting an order in and then having to wait until the next day (or whenever it was) or watching my character stand around in the workshop like a lemon while an NPC crafted for me.
I've no experience of SWG but nothing I read in that link really excites me or makes me feel that is what crafting in FF is missing.

I'm not entirely happy with the direction it went with in HW, but crafting in FFXIV is still fun and engaging. Making it something that happens 'offstage' or disconnected from your character feels like entirely the wrong direction to go.
There's quicksynth for the dull stuff; you can go make a cup of tea while that's going on if you don't want to sit and watch it, that's enough for me.


OP: Sorry, no real suggestions for you. I actually don't mind gathering and crafting as they are, although I agree about the grind. It felt excessive in HW, and compared to ARR, levelling both crafting and gathering was fairly painful (I started playing in HW so I didn't have the best gear or tools). I really struggled to level from 50 to 52 and it felt like there was no real catch up for crafters and gatherers who hadn't got their Lucis tools and the best ARR gear. In contrast the battleclass gear was so good, levelling my main was a breeze.
I sincerely hope that Stormblood doesn't continue with the horrendous amount of materials needed to make as single item, like an ingot or piece of lumber or continue putting levelling materials onto hidden or timed nodes. Specialisation needs a thorough overhaul too. But beyond that, I've no real issues.

TLDR I don't really feel the 'disconnect' between gathering and crafting that you are feeling.

[Shurrikhan]

TLDR I don't really feel the 'disconnect' between gathering and crafting that you are feeling.

I apologize if I was unclear; what I meant was that it felt to me like (subject) crafting and gathering (both, together) missed opportunities to better connect or integrate themselves into (object) the overall game experience.

Take gathering for instance. By requiring a completely separate class and separate gear stats their are very few places that SE was willing to develop gathering nodes, and even then it relies on the crutch of a very unimaginative "Stealth" mechanic as not to come in further conflict with battlecraft spacial needs (i.e. having monsters). Because of this, there is virtually no sense of exploration involved in gathering, as it is limited to more or less exact locations (+/- some 8 meters up or down the cliff face or around a large rock), in exact loops, and only in certain zones—all because it put its design, and therefore needs, in conflict with the needs of other disciplines. By no means is this an issue with Gathering designs alone—to me it signals design issues on an overarching level—but they are probably the discipline most obviously affected.

Alternatively, look at crafting, which is dependant on far more cross-class skills than the Battle/Magic (or obviously Land) Disciplines. Despite an Armorer requiring barely refined pieces from Leatherworker, Weaver, Alchemist, or more, just to make a pair of plated boots, and despite that those pieces would still likely require skill in their respective class to even affix to the larger whole, all leveling is absolutely separate; for stitching together the actual boot out of leather, hardening it thereafter, firmly adhering the sole, stamping in the designs, and adding the trim, the Armorer receives only "a higher nominal offset/input on strange RNG calculations" for Armorer alone.

<Workshops> "Please not like WoW's"

Let me throw out an alternative to the "workshop" idea, since I too have a staunch dislike of any take on "offscreen" crafting that would seem like WoW's garrison crafting. Guilds. Making crafting guilds matter. While to really pull this off, one might actually need a living NPC economy, let's just look at the side-effects that such could produce for now, if guilds were involved in this, namely the hierarchical allotment of tasks (assigned at labor + guild values). At a glance, this would simply be an alternative to crafting leves, but in practice, this also allows more advanced crafters to delegate tasks, be that to NPCs or players, letting them borrow materials, or quoting a price over to a gathering guild for x amount of material to be later used, to be turned into refined ingredients reserved for your later use. The guild, in turn, by specific mechanic or through living economy AI, would be buying additional materials to be used by their own crafters, the excess (if only a mechanic, the whole) of which can be purchased at guild price or for guild currency (alike to favor exchange) to replace wasted ingredients, etc., the deposit for which can be required before accepting another's materials.

[Solarra]

Snip

Thank you for taking the time to explain, I understand what you mean now and I completely agree with you, but in the case of integrating say, gathering and battle I'm not sure what can be done.
It would be broken to let us switch from gather to battle class with all cooldowns reset, or from battle to a gathering class with full GP. So, if they put gathering nodes in dungeons for example, we'd have to go back once it was cleared because nobody is going to want to wait around for that. If they designed a dungeon so a gatherer or crafter was necessary to progress, it would mean longer queues and a lot of work on the present system, so I can't see that happening.

If a gatherer or crafter gave a bonus, like unlocking an extra area, it might work. Eg. a miner could chip through a wall in a dungeon to open a new area or an alchemist could make a potion that lets you sneak past an invulnerable mob, but the rewards have to be worth the effort and I think DF groups who find themselves without the necessary gatherers/crafters would probably complain.
Because of the class system and the need to switch gear, integrating gather and crafting objectives alongside battle would require communication and cooperation, two things FFXIV players aren't used to or good at (remember Diadem?).

Making crafting guilds matter...

I like these ideas. The one thing every new player in my FC comments on if they get into crafting, is the crafting questlines and the guild masters, and so far everyone has loved them.
I was so disappointed Ishgard didn't have a Guild Hall or it's own master crafters, despite people wearing clothes/gear that was markedly different from most of the gear in ARR.
Expanding on the guilds and making them more relevant would be something I'd like to see.