Please make enmity values more transparent

[Fluffernuff]

Honestly, I fail to see how seeing "exact" emnity numbers will actually make tanking easier. I mean suddenly SEEING how much emnity my RoH is doing doesn't change.... how much emnity my RoH is doing. It won't magically make anyone just... play better. It's purely Quality of Life.
Yes, having said numbers can help SOME people have the tools TO improve, but by itself, it changes... little to nothing. you have to actually use said tools first. I cannot agree that such a thing is a magical panacea that will make tanking easier for everyone.

HOWEVER, I would very much like the QoL of a rough estimate being shown on relevant tooltips. simply listing an emnity alongside the potency, while bloating the tooltip, would be much appreciated. It certainly wouldn't hurt! I mean, they could just list the "Increased Emnity 'Potency'". For example just having "Increased Emnity: 600" slapped onto Flash would be kinda nice without bloating the tooltip to all heck.

[dragonseth07]

snip

I can speak to it. With the current system, you can see that the BLM has about 80% of your aggro. With numerical values, and the ability to see numbers, I can see just how much that 20% lead is. Earlier in a fight, it is a small number, and easily made up quickly. But, once we've built up 100k Enmity? That 20% lead could last for much longer. Numbers give you more information on just how much you need/have, so you can gauge how many/when to aggro combo.

[Rinari]

As a tank, I actually enjoy the current system. The enmity icons on the monster list are quite useful and it's more information than most MMOs provide. Even in WoW, I don't remember getting that information without running a meter add-on (which most everyone runs, to be fair). FFXIV is very generous with tanks enmity multipliers, assuming you stay in tank stance. It's quite easy to build up a huge lead, swap stances if you aren't taking too much damage, and then pretty much do whatever you want. My only real complaint is that the enmity list doesn't show mobs engaged with the party that you haven't touched yet. I'd much prefer if it would show all mobs engaged with the party. Sometimes an add can sneak in and harass a player at range and I don't notice it for a while.

Usually when I lose enmity lead, it's my fault. I can play a blame game with enmity and say that the DPS splitting their targets instead of focusing is the culprit. That's not wrong, but I could have prevented it with an extra flash/overpower or interleaving my attacks between the split targets... or even marking my targets and badgering the DPS to follow a specific kill order. Sometimes I'll get a BLM nuking a group during a pull before I can line up an overpower cone or such... beyond my control, but there is usually I something simple I could have done to avoid it. I love it when DPS minds their enmity, giving me a moment to position pulls, keeping their single target DPS on one target (AoE is fine, please AoE), and such... but I don't really expect it with DF groups and we're given generous tools to handle it.

Of course, I'm all for having more options for information! A meter showing my enmity % and the % of the next highest player would be useful.

[Fluffernuff]

I can speak to it. With the current system, you can see that the BLM has about 80% of your aggro. With numerical values, and the ability to see numbers, I can see just how much that 20% lead is. Earlier in a fight, it is a small number, and easily made up quickly. But, once we've built up 100k Enmity? That 20% lead could last for much longer. Numbers give you more information on just how much you need/have, so you can gauge how many/when to aggro combo.

Indeed. Honestly, the party list does a very effective job at showing a rough enmity of a targeted mob. Though, I can't actually see how those bars could be improved. Even making it show % doesn't give "exact enmity" and doesn't tell me that 20% I have is 100k or not, I agree.

It would be a nice QoL improvement to know as a more experienced tank, don't get me wrong- I'm certainly not against it. Yet, I can't see how SE can make an exact number showable on the enmity list or party list as-is without adding screen clutter- those of us that have them tucked away at 60%/80%/etc. sizes off to one side or the other... well good luck seeing those 6-8 digit enmity numbers, if they're even legible at that size.
I also fear that it adds a bit of an extra learning curve to tanking. I know a few too many people that are already put off by the social implications of tanking and throwing a wall of numbers certainly wouldn't help, especially with the more... demanding the whole PUG environment is right now.

All that said, I still have to fall back on the fact that simply knowing I have 100k more enmity than the BLM doesn't actually make my ability to tank any easier or better. Seeing my aggro doesn't mean I'm generating more. If I'm 100k enmity ahead of the BLM chances are I'm already tanking effectively without the system or I'm huddled up in my tank stance spamming my emnity combo a little too many times.

Although, knowing I only have a few hundred enmity ahead after my opener would certainly be alot more useful to me.... the party list tends to be less helpful at the start of a pull.

Actually thinking about it, though... and another point to consider here, is that having this added to the game would be much more beneficial for DPS than tanks, I think. Having a tangible effect to Quelling or Smokescreen/Shadewalker or even Shroud of Saint I think would make it a bit more usable overall... assuming that DF as a whole learns that enmity isn't damage, anyway.

I'm still all for this kind of system. More knowledge for the players is never a bad thing! The only thing I don't agree with is it being any more than a simple QoL addition... it's just not going to make tanking easier like some might want to claim, that's all.

[Rinari]

I know a few too many people that are already put off by the social implications of tanking and throwing a wall of numbers certainly wouldn't help, especially with the more... demanding the whole PUG environment is right now.

I was terrified when I started tanking. It was back in WoW and I was fortunate to have experienced tanks in my guild mentor me with their DPS alts, or I might never have gotten up the nerve to try. Up until then, I had only played DPS, where the redundancy of the role gives some extra room for error. I'm not sure if that's what you meant by social implications, but it was definitely the big barrier for me. Looking back it seems silly, but even now, I get a bit of anxiety going into new content, as the tank is expected to know their way around a dungeon!

As a new player, I can attest the UI is already an overwhelming pile of information. I'd say, any extra enmity information should be obscured by default to avoid screen clutter and throwing too much at new players. The enmity icons are enough until you start wanting to fine-tune enmity at the high end of things. Having the option to show more information would be great!

[Fluffernuff]

snip

by "social implications" i merely meant a more sugar coated version of saying the DF or random crowd picking apart every mistake relentlessly. As they do. Ice mages are annoying, but not called out. Healers actively not healing might get a word or 2. A tank not holding aggro? A tank not using cooldowns? A new tank only pulling 3 mobs? If you don't get an earful, chances are you've been kicked. THAT'S what I was poking fun at.

Interesting you bring it up as a toggle. I didn't think of it that way. I was thinking along the lines of just replacing the vague/unhelpful "Additional Effect: Increased Potency" with something more helpful like "Increased Emnity: XXX" and/or "Combo Enmity: XXX".
Something like that will throw more numbers at new players, but new players could also possibly see the bigger numbers and gravitate towards those. That's my thought process, anyway

[Rinari]

Interesting you bring it up as a toggle. I didn't think of it that way. I was thinking along the lines of just replacing the vague/unhelpful "Additional Effect: Increased Potency" with something more helpful like "Increased Emnity: XXX" and/or "Combo Enmity: XXX".

I'm probably being confusing. I was getting at optionally putting enmity values on the actual enmity list. As an example, that would help when out of tank stance so you could monitor how quickly DPS is catching up on enmity. Tooltips operate in a vacuum. Unless you're familiar with the enmity values of the DPS classes, knowing that one of your moves has XXX enmity modifier isn't as helpful as it could be. I like having more information though! I'm all for having enmity modifiers detailed in the tooltips and having relative enmity values shown in the enmity list. Of course, a verbose enmity option could be used to hide the extra information in tooltips even to avoid overwhelming newer players... but I don't think there is any harm in giving them the actual values there from the start. The enmity list though is a bit more confounding and clutters the UI all the time in combat, so it's more important to reduce clutter there at the start.

As for the social situation... I'm sure there are bad groups, but I haven't had any terrible ones yet. Since I'm starting out, I don't do huge pulls. I also give brief explanations of bosses before each boss pull, in case other players are unfamiliar. I once had someone get snippy and bark out 'we know', but usually people have been very kind and patient, or just silent. I'm not going slow or making mistakes left and right, and I tell people when I'm new to something at the start. I expect people to get a bit more toxic at the high end content (not there yet), but I've been very pleased with the FFXIV overall!

[saber_alter]

this i wouldn't mind...so long as it doesn't become more UI clutter.

[Fyrebrand]

Came here to ask about precisely this. I spent today trying to learn how to tank on an alt, and it's frustratingly mysterious. I'm really struggling to maintain threat, so I want to know what skills generate the highest threat. Why can't they list something like a "potency," as they do with damage or healing skills? If DPS and healing skills just said something vague like "deals some damage" or "heals some HP," it would be considered a bad joke. A tank's job is to generate enmity -- so let us know how much we're generating!

I just ran my Gladiator through Halatali, so there is a limited amount of skills I have access to. I want to know things like: "What generates more enmity, two Shield Lobs, or a Fast Blade > Savage Blade combo?" or "I assume Flash, being an AoE, generates less enmity on a per-mob basis -- but how much less?" Why does the core aspect of my role have to be a guessing game?

It would help stop people complaining about being unable to hold aggro at low levels when they can see how strong Flash is, so I'm all for it. Here's an up to date list of the enmity modifiers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/wiki/enmity

Can anyone else speak to this? Are the numbers in this link accurate? If so, then clearly a couple of Flashes is objectively the best way to generate enmity, even against single targets (albeit costly) -- which is not intuitive at all. I would never have imagined this.

[LilLemay]

Came here to ask about precisely this. I spent today trying to learn how to tank on an alt, and it's frustratingly mysterious. I'm really struggling to maintain threat, so I want to know what skills generate the highest threat.

Well the game already tells you which ones generate the most threat, i'm not sure the exact formula but it's apparent that emnity is directly related to the damage a move does, and every skill that does damage tells you it's potency.

so you know if it tells you ''increased emnity'' the higher the potency relative to the other ones that say ''increased emnity'' the more it generates

Edit: And no I'm not trying to argue against the points made here in the thread, I'm just saying it does tell you