DRK O3S tanking without grit. Need advice

[Linkan]

Hi, I went full DH from TEN in order to do more dps as the enrage times is a big issue for us.

However, I cant seem to be able to go out of grit as a MT. When I drop it, raid aggro grows too fast, forcing me to either get back into grit or use aggro combos.

Arent those aggro combos a huge dps loss in comparisson to grit dps combos?

Any advice on how to keep up aggro while out of grit?

Also, as the OT, I not even considering tanking those adds without grits. Man they hit like a truck.

[Daniel_Fury]

Your OT is probably not voke shirking you in your groups.
For the adds, you don't need grit if you plan your cds carefully. With a bit of pre pull coordination you can cheese an add with living dead.

[FPZ]

You'd ideally need a ninja & provoke+shirk from your off-tank. The combined shade-walkers / smoke-screens added with the shirks will put you ahead by a fair bit.

You'll also need a good amount of gear, especially if your group is rocking 340 weapons. I sometimes almost lose aggro without a provoke+shirk from my off-tank, that would be the minimum thing you need to keep ahead on aggro. If you're not rocking a NIN then I feel bad for you .

[HiroKirito]

I went full DH from TEN in order to do more dps as the enrage times is a big issue for us.

SNIP

Raid aggro grows too fast, forcing me to either get back into grit or use aggro combos.

For me these two don't add up :/ if your groups struggling with raid dps to beat enrage but your raid agro is high then the problem imo lies with your other raid members and not the tanks or comp. Yeah sure having a ninja helps but to me it sounds like not only are your dps not contributing as much as they need to, but also they are failing to manage their own enmity.... every job has access to cross role skills to now control their own enmity.

Sorry if any of that sounds harsh but unless you're doing something fundamentally wrong (which it doesn't sound like you are) then next most like cause is no one else managing enmity imo.

[aqskerorokero]

Then stay in grit......don't think good tank is never tank stance tank.... stance dance also means you go out and back in, not turn off grit and forget about it.....

[RLofOBFL]

Dps have to manage their own emnity, but without a ninja or a tank voke/shirking, it would still be rather difficult to maintain top aggro. But....your dps is most likely not the issue. Our raid had a MT tank that did 1400 on our first o3 clear 5 weeks ago yet we still cleared. Your raid dps looks to be the issue. Raidwide dps needs to be at like 24k, so something like 5k tanks, 3k healers, 16k dps, and that's not including limit breaks which can be around 1000 dps if melee on boss and 2500 on last add phase. If more than 1 dps dies it can be impossible to recover at ilvl 320ish, in my experience. Basically every dps death is 500ish less dps for that person, depending on job.

Also start with a Dark Arts Power slash if you have no ninja and a normal power slash if you do, aggro combos are bad but basically every MT needs at least one except WAR. And make sure your OT shirks you at every opportunity except during add phases.

[SyzzleSpark]

A DA Power Slash in Grit before your opener should sustain you for a very long time. Considering everyone in the group pulls off the boss to kill an add just a few minutes into the fight, and then again 3 more times in later phases, so long as everyone is dumping aggro there shouldn't be a problem.

All this being said, sustaining enmity outside of tank stance does rely a fair bit on you doing somewhat high DPS yourself, so if there's a problem in your DPS rotation/optimization that could also be a problem.

As for damage, Awareness+TBN every odd buster (EDIT: Awareness lasts a long time and can be activated around the 10s mark on the countdown - this gives you one less button to have to push after pulling) and Shadow Wall+TBN every even. Throw on Rampart if you feel you need extra Grit-esque cushioning; it'll be up for every Crit if you choose to reserve it for this purpose. In the final phase there are two Crits that occur at a much shorter interval about a minute or two (?) before enrage, you can LD one of them.

If you're on add duty, I feel your pain, as DRK's CDs are... not very well optimized for the timing windows of add spawns in this fight. In a perfect world, I'd Rampart+DM the white wind, LD the dragon, Rampart/Shadow Wall the panda, and Rampart/Shadow Wall the giant. TBN whatever you can, but several of the adds hit very hard repeatedly. Minor note, but you can Sole Survivor the wind, panda, and giant. You won't have it for the dragon.

[Sarcatica]

If you have been seeing FFlogs, DRK pulls without Grit while using DAPS combo then basically Shirk is the main story from there on. For turns like O1S and O3S, 'double' Shirk works wonder: OT Provoke, MT Shirk, MT Provoke, OT Shirk. Literally every fight can be pulled off tank stance AS LONG AS your cotank coordinate with you, NIN also has a huge part on MT opener as well. This is how those top speedruns achieve such a high number on both the tanks.

[Daniel_Fury]

This is how i use my CDs for the add phases. Whether or not it's optimal is debatable but works well for me. I shadow wall as soon as I pull white flame. After the first heal, I'll use regular DM + TBN.
For dragon I'll use Rampart and TBN for first breath. If it's still alive you can use regular DM for second breath. By the time you get to apanda, your Rampart will be up with TBN. Use TBN once you're baiting him into position, then Rampart once the shield breaks. As soon as hammers finish, shadow wall and TBN is back up. For IG, everything's back up and it dies so fast anyway you won't have an issue. As mentioned previously, you can LD any of these so it's a matter of choosing where you want to use it.

[Mirateski]

If any of your dps die AT ALL before like the last 10%, you may as well reset it because you won't beat the enrage. The weakness is a HUGE hit to dps, and while it's alright (if not optimal) on tanks/healers, unless everyone else is absolutely 100% on top of their game you won't meet enrage with a dead dps.

Regarding aggro, have your cotank vokeshirk on cooldown (adds permitting). My drk ot vokeshirks me after the flame dies and I think at some point around books? It gets a bit hectic so I pay less attention. If your dps aren't using diversion/lucid dreaming/elusive jump/shadewalker/whatever, make them do it. Aggro can get a bit scary around about white flame for me (we have ot pull in grit, DA PS, then I voke off them) but the dps will be peeling off to hit the add and the vokeshirk should come right after.

You can sit in grit for the adds. The boss doesn't really do all that much that isn't telegraphed, so it's a lot easier for the mt to be in dps stance (and get a higher overall parse). It's not like you're hitting hali at that point anyway, and the adds won't die any quicker if you're out of grit.

If you're still having trouble and deaths aren't the issue, someone in your group will probably need to start parsing to identify your problem. Tank dps can shore up low raid dps but it won't win the raid if one dps is significantly underperforming.