Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[RaijinSupreme]

Defeatism in opponents, the ally of so many with popular viewpoints....

Question, is there a point where you would draw the line? Where you would say "The game is too catering towards cash shop users"?. Whether that be cash shop users get preferential treatment in glamour, conveniences, or actual pay to win, is that a possibility for you?

If so, I don't see how you can support jump potions. Or how you can sit idly by and watch them happen. I've already conceded in multiple comments that supporters of this will likely get their way, but I'm not going to stop talking about it. Because I enjoy this game and don't want to see it become something I don't think it should be.

You keep mentioning me as if I have given you an opinion of mine about anything you're talking about here lol.

I have not spoken to you about the merits or the consequences of the jump potion, I have not said a single thing about the cash shop, and I definitely have not said anything about the game going p2w.

Only thing I said, and this will be the last time I'm saying it, is that the dungeons being locked behind the story will not change. That's it. not an opinion. Just truth. If you want to discuss another plausible alternative to the implementation of the jump potion, then be my guest. This particular idea will never happen though.

You want my opinion though? ok.

I will draw the line if SE announced that there will be a potion that will get players automatically to level 70 while level 70 is still the max level in the game. I will also draw the line if SE ever includes cash shop gear, not glamour pieces, but real gear, that will get a player to an item level thats the same, or higher than the max iLevel that you can get in-game at the time of that gear's release.

The current jump potion that already exist only gets you to level 50. The jump potion that will be implemented in the game will only get you to level 60, which will be after the max level increase to level 70.

With all the glamour, mounts, dyes, fantasias, and everything else that's currently in the cash shop, none of it affected levels or iLevel. Therefore, I have no reason to believe that SE will include those things in the cash shop in the future. If you are that scared, as you said so yourself, you can "get out sooner".

[Adire]

.....

SE is still testing the water with the cash shop right now. They're a business though first and foremost, if people will pay, they will do it at some point. The jump potion is a precedent. It's the first item that will directly impact gameplay and give a convenience to people who pay over people who don't.

The jump potion is not added yet, and I will oppose it until it's a reality, and I'll still oppose it even after. Sorry, but sulking in a corner and accepting things I oppose is not something I do, nor is it something others should do.

You may even draw the line sooner than you think. If SE sees a market for exclusive cash shop glamour, you can bet they'll pounce on that eventually too. Know what the effect of that would very possibly be? The best quality and/or majority of glamours could end up exclusively on the cash shop rather than in game. That's happened in MMOs before. Would you draw the line there? Or would you still not care because it's not stat related, despite you being unable to look cool or unique without shelling out extra cash?

It's a slow process, but nickle and diming really gets people who don't see the signs early and react. Which unfortunately seems to be most gamers these days.

[RaijinSupreme]

SE is still testing the water with the cash shop right now.

You may even draw the line sooner than you think. If SE sees a market for exclusive cash shop glamour, you can bet they'll pounce on that eventually too. Know what the effect of that would very possibly be? The best quality and/or majority of glamours could end up exclusively on the cash shop rather than in game. That's happened in MMOs before. Would you draw the line there? Or would you still not care because it's not stat related, despite you being unable to look cool or unique without shelling out extra cash?

It's a slow process, but nickle and diming really gets people who don't see the signs early and react. Which unfortunately seems to be most gamers these days.

Then it sounds like you have a valid reason to "get out sooner" as well.

[Adire]

Then it sounds like you have a valid reason to "get out sooner" as well.

You seem to really want me gone, this is like the 4th time you've said that. I guess it makes sense though. People who just pay a sub fee have no place in the subscription MMOs with expanding cash shops world.

But no, I'll stay and argue my case until I feel like the game is too far gone. Jump potions are a big step towards that point for me though. I just miss the days when people valued their money more.

On the "Dungeons as part of the Plot" debate, it's admittedly kind of difficult. Reducing them to solo-instances certainly carries it's advantages. New players wouldn't be reliant on other players for storyline progression, and it might make players more attached to the NPCs.

Exactly. One reason I've struggled to get into the story in this game is because of how useless the NPCs are. I'm supposed to be saving the world with the Scions and crew right? Well, it seems like they like to put in the minimal amount of effort when it comes to stepping outside base to do anything. Mass Effect's characters were so loveable to me because we all went through everything together, combat included.

Maybe we could get more challenging dungeons too since they wouldn't be required to progress the main storyline.

[RaijinSupreme]

You seem to really want me gone, this is like the 4th time you've said that. I guess it makes sense though. People who just pay a sub fee have no place in the subscription MMOs with expanding cash shops world.

But no, I'll stay and argue my case until I feel like the game is too far gone. Jump potions are a big step towards that point for me though. I just miss the days when people valued their money more.

If the potions do come though, I hope people spend massive amounts of money on them. I'd rather the slippery slope to an expansive cash shop happen quickly so I know to get out sooner

YOU said you would leave, not me.

That I took from you. I don't care if you stay or not. But you've already predicted that the game will become p2w because the jump potion, a thing does exists and have existed in the game for a while now, will be the catalyst to a p2w scenario in the game where nothing of merit can be obtained in-game, but all the real cool and unique stuff will be sold in the cash shop. Since you said,

You may even draw the line sooner than you think

then you must have already predicted that the devs WILL implement a max level 70 potion as well, AND an item level booster in the cash shop on top of that.

If you've already made these predictions, then you should probably just follow your own advice.

[Lambdafish]

snip

Is it an issue that Adire disagrees with you? As far as I have seen she hasn't attacked your side of the arguement, rather provided alternate solutions to issues that she cares about (be they good or bad, ideas can be altered and evolved). I didn't want to be so confrontational but you literally just picked a single sentence out of a large arguement (the one about "getting out") and advised she go through with it, so you did tell her to leave in a way.

This is a constructive debate, in which the devs collect feedback, just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are any less right or wrong. Jump potion has as many positives as it does negatives, as someone who is against jump potions I can fully admit that, but being narrow minded and telling people that they might as well go through with their plans of unsubbing because they disagree with you is not constructive to the debate in the slightest.

Apologies if this comes across as irrational, its just that this is a very important discussion that could have serious effects on the game as a whole, and I wonder how many people are looking at the big picture and actually thinking about it.

[Kaedan]

Apologies if this comes across as irrational, its just that this is a very important discussion that could have serious effects on the game as a whole, and I wonder how many people are looking at the big picture and actually thinking about it.

It doesn't really, though.

The main argument from anti-skippers is that people won't know what they're doing and will get kicked. That's not a valid argument, because that would happen no matter what option SE implemented to reduce leveling times to catch up.

Hell, it's not valid now because there are people that level solely through FATEs to max level and never once play group content and then end up doing poorly and possibly getting kicked.

As far as being allowed to skip the story, that doesn't affect anyone but the person skipping. And the story skip potion only takes them up to 2.55, so they still have to go through a LOT of story and dungeons to catch up.

[RaijinSupreme]

Is it an issue that Adire disagrees with you? As far as I have seen she hasn't attacked your side of the arguement, rather provided alternate solutions to issues that she cares about (be they good or bad, ideas can be altered and evolved). I didn't want to be so confrontational but you literally just picked a single sentence out of a large arguement (the one about "getting out") and advised she go through with it, so you did tell her to leave in a way.


Apologies if this comes across as irrational, its just that this is a very important discussion that could have serious effects on the game as a whole, and I wonder how many people are looking at the big picture and actually thinking about it.

She didn't disagree with me because I have no stake in this argument.
I don't care about the jump potion because its not hurting me. It won't bring a character to max level (level 70) and it won't interfere with the ilevel in the game. There are already cool glamours and mounts and other stuff in the cash shop, so adding a jump potion (that already exists) is not going to intensify what's already happening.

Yoshi-P has constantly spoken against the game becoming P2W, and the only reason of the existence of the jump potion is
1) to give new players a way to catch up instantly with their friends so they can play new content together.
2) because the concept of jump potion has become very popular in our regions, the way it was already popular in the regions the jump potion already exist.

If yoshi-p wants to stay competitive and be able to attract new players to the game, he has to give them what they are already accustomed to and what they can easily get from competitors, or this game will stop bringing new players, and eventually die out. But the jump potion won't interfere with anything endgame, so there is no real p2w that will come from it.


She stated she wanted the dungeons to be taken out of the story. I said that its not going to happen. Not that I don't want it to happen, but that it literally will not happen. She took it as if I was defending the jump potion. I'm not. I don't care about it. If new players want to skip stuff, let them. What does that have to do with me?

She said if this is the way the game is going, then she's going to leave. I said if that's what she believes, then she probably should. I don't care if she does or not. But her reluctance to believe in the dev team and the things they feel strongly about blinds her. So if she wants to go, then go.

You aren't being irrational, and it can be whatever kind of debate you wish. But when someone speaks of how their friends left the game, and threatens to leave the game themselves because they don't like things about it, then its just better that they do. Save yourself, and the people that are staying, the trouble.