Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[RaijinSupreme]

SE is still testing the water with the cash shop right now.

You may even draw the line sooner than you think. If SE sees a market for exclusive cash shop glamour, you can bet they'll pounce on that eventually too. Know what the effect of that would very possibly be? The best quality and/or majority of glamours could end up exclusively on the cash shop rather than in game. That's happened in MMOs before. Would you draw the line there? Or would you still not care because it's not stat related, despite you being unable to look cool or unique without shelling out extra cash?

It's a slow process, but nickle and diming really gets people who don't see the signs early and react. Which unfortunately seems to be most gamers these days.

Then it sounds like you have a valid reason to "get out sooner" as well.

[Claymore65]

On the "Dungeons as part of the Plot" debate, it's admittedly kind of difficult. Reducing them to solo-instances certainly carries it's advantages. New players wouldn't be reliant on other players for storyline progression, and it might make players more attached to the NPCs.

However, it brings its fair share of downsides as well. First off, the ally AI in this game is not sophisticated enough to handle anything but the most basic of mechanics. This means that we won't be able to have as unique, difficult, or interesting mechanics in story fights. One of my favorite trials was Nidhogg. The lead-up to his battle in the story was incredible, and then you delve into a legitimately difficult trial, even on normal difficulty. It made conquering the scourge of Ishgard extremely exciting. However, as a solo-instance, the battle with Nidhogg would need to be far simpler. Nidhogg's damage couldn't be so high a healer would get creamed. Complicated dodging mechanics or teamwork would be impossible. Even something as simple as Gubal's last boss would likely be impossible as a solo-instance. Plus, tying the dungeons to the main plot works to tie players together. Conquering Nidhogg isn't the story of just your efforts to slay him. It's you and your fellow players banding together to destroy a vicious opponent. When you come out victorious, you get a sense of camaraderie. It also ensures that players have a modicum of experience in dungeons by the time they get to endgame. This (hopefully) makes players a little more skilled.

I certainly wouldn't say the current system is perfect, but I think keeping Dungeons/Trials separate from the MSQ would be a mistake. Fights against the Primals or Ultima would lose a good bit of their impact.

I also enjoy the Secret World, but I will say the epic story encounters feel too simple at times. Things like Beaumont should have been a complicated, mechanics filled fight, but it ended up being dead simple since you have to do it alone. It's also much easier to create solo fights in the Secret World due it's lack of a rigid class structure. You normally have "Solo Builds" and "Group Builds", so you don't have to worry as much about, say, a primary healer completing a boss fight. I feel like in some ways it's not the best comparison.

[Adire]

Then it sounds like you have a valid reason to "get out sooner" as well.

You seem to really want me gone, this is like the 4th time you've said that. I guess it makes sense though. People who just pay a sub fee have no place in the subscription MMOs with expanding cash shops world.

But no, I'll stay and argue my case until I feel like the game is too far gone. Jump potions are a big step towards that point for me though. I just miss the days when people valued their money more.

On the "Dungeons as part of the Plot" debate, it's admittedly kind of difficult. Reducing them to solo-instances certainly carries it's advantages. New players wouldn't be reliant on other players for storyline progression, and it might make players more attached to the NPCs.

Exactly. One reason I've struggled to get into the story in this game is because of how useless the NPCs are. I'm supposed to be saving the world with the Scions and crew right? Well, it seems like they like to put in the minimal amount of effort when it comes to stepping outside base to do anything. Mass Effect's characters were so loveable to me because we all went through everything together, combat included.

Maybe we could get more challenging dungeons too since they wouldn't be required to progress the main storyline.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

I agree... I want dungeons to supplement the story. They can be tied to it without being required.

How you can agree with me and then one paragraph later disagree with me, all in the same post mind, simultaneously confuses and amuses me. I don't want dungeons to be merely supplemental/optional material, as that's the same as making them effectively worthless in regards to the greater story, as the story can't be developed in a way that involves the dungeon without alienating players that opted to skip the dungeon for whatever reason. Them being a part of the msq itself strengthens the narrative as a whole, rather than leaving a trail of bread crumbs that, like as not, will be passed over both intentionally and accidentally by those that aren't aware they exist.

That doesn't really make any sense. TSW's dungeons are all optional yet add so much to the overarching storyline. Players might miss out of some things in the story if they choose not to do them, but that's the cost of choosing not to do them. Just like there should be a cost to jumping into Stormblood without doing the story prior to it. It CAN be done. Will it take more effort than just slapping jump potions into the game and calling it a day? Sure, but more effort often yields more rewards.

Judging by your posts on the topic, you also don't care for the dungeons being relevant to the story as well, nor do you seem to care for the fact that there are people that enjoy the way the narrative is structured.

Frankly, I couldn't see any solo instances or trials being nearly as fun or rewarding to do if they could all be solo'd by a botanist or a miner, which is certainly something that they'd need to be capable of should they be devolved to solo instances only. Dungeons and trials should both stay the way they are, involved in the main story, rather than optional tidbits that barely matter in the grand scheme of things.

[Adire]

....

That doesn't really make any sense. TSW's dungeons are all optional yet add so much to the overarching storyline. Players might miss out of some things in the story if they choose not to do them, but that's the cost of choosing not to do them. Just like there should be a cost to jumping into Stormblood without doing the story prior to it. It CAN be done. Will it take more effort than just slapping jump potions into the game and calling it a day? Sure, but more effort often yields more rewards.

[RaijinSupreme]

You seem to really want me gone, this is like the 4th time you've said that. I guess it makes sense though. People who just pay a sub fee have no place in the subscription MMOs with expanding cash shops world.

But no, I'll stay and argue my case until I feel like the game is too far gone. Jump potions are a big step towards that point for me though. I just miss the days when people valued their money more.

If the potions do come though, I hope people spend massive amounts of money on them. I'd rather the slippery slope to an expansive cash shop happen quickly so I know to get out sooner

YOU said you would leave, not me.

That I took from you. I don't care if you stay or not. But you've already predicted that the game will become p2w because the jump potion, a thing does exists and have existed in the game for a while now, will be the catalyst to a p2w scenario in the game where nothing of merit can be obtained in-game, but all the real cool and unique stuff will be sold in the cash shop. Since you said,

You may even draw the line sooner than you think

then you must have already predicted that the devs WILL implement a max level 70 potion as well, AND an item level booster in the cash shop on top of that.

If you've already made these predictions, then you should probably just follow your own advice.

[Newmanxeno]

Is this thread: people arguing, not convincing the other side, getting bored, then a new team tags in?

[SendohJin]

Is this thread: people arguing, not convincing the other side, getting bored, then a new team tags in?

isn't that most of the internet?

[Kaedan]

Cutting out non-essential fetch quests.

Vast majority of the non-essential fetch quests were already side quests.

Only gating main storyline related quests to people who aren't caught up with that but allowing access to everything else for everyone in Stormblood.

That doesn't help at all. The entire point of the level skip and story skip is to allow NEW players to catch up.

Making dungeons all be optional, non-story related dungeons (Many MMOs do this just fine I might add. FFXIV is one of the few I've played that has certain required dungeons.).

Absolutely not. Required dungeons are part of the vetting/training process. Yes, you will be able to skip those up to 2.55 patch with the story potion, but you'll still have to do all the required ones after that, and that's a necessity.

And yes, other games do jump potions. Probably because gamers spend recklessly these days and it's profitable and a minimal-effort option to implement for game companies.

All the other AAA MMOs do jump potions because they are the objectively best option for both the company AND players.

[Lambdafish]

snip

Is it an issue that Adire disagrees with you? As far as I have seen she hasn't attacked your side of the arguement, rather provided alternate solutions to issues that she cares about (be they good or bad, ideas can be altered and evolved). I didn't want to be so confrontational but you literally just picked a single sentence out of a large arguement (the one about "getting out") and advised she go through with it, so you did tell her to leave in a way.

This is a constructive debate, in which the devs collect feedback, just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that they are any less right or wrong. Jump potion has as many positives as it does negatives, as someone who is against jump potions I can fully admit that, but being narrow minded and telling people that they might as well go through with their plans of unsubbing because they disagree with you is not constructive to the debate in the slightest.

Apologies if this comes across as irrational, its just that this is a very important discussion that could have serious effects on the game as a whole, and I wonder how many people are looking at the big picture and actually thinking about it.