The Wanderer's Minuet and class-design frustrations

[NolLacnala]

Implement WM to make BRD not AA heavy
Later, change AA's to omnidirectional, invalidating WM's existence

Mfw these devs


Also, you're seeing fewer bards dying to aoes because there are fewer bards

[Greedalox]

Also, you're seeing fewer bards dying to aoes because there are fewer bards

That tends to be a side effect of classes being added to the game. Newer classes pull numbers from all previous ones.

[ChloeGrace]

That tends to be a side effect of classes being added to the game. Newer classes pull numbers from all previous ones.

Not like what happened to Bard. IIRC the census in 2.5x was around 19-20%, and 3.0 dropped that to less than half of that. It was the nerfs that caused it, not the new jobs.

[Myon88]

The issue is that the confluence of (WM + River of Blood + lots of other oGCDs) just doesn't function properly. It's anti-synergistic and leads to a myriad of decision points that - while yes, in a vacuum more decisions means more skill - some of these judgment calls are frankly bulls**t in nature and have no place within the design philosophy of this game.

I worry that this is one of those cases where the players end up having way better knowledge of one aspect of the game than the devs. It makes me a little pessimistic of them being able to zero in on the specific issues that bards have. Little kinks in the toolkit like these need a certain level of familiarity with the game's combat mechanics to appreciate.

Reminds me how the last time they talked about machinists for example (one of the posts here just before their 3.2 buffs), you got the impression they feel MCH was a really difficult and tough job. I always found that funny because as you know the general consensus of those in the know is that at the 90++ percentiles, MCH is easy and BRD is hard.

It doesn't change the fact that perhaps most regular players do find MCH difficult, but it just goes to show that job perceptions can vary greatly based on context and skill level. And BRD kind of get a raw deal since their issues only come to light on the cutting edge, where they don't get much visibility.

[TarynH]

Yoshi doesn't care, despite the ~12% of players who main bard.

TL;DR WM isn't going anywhere. Suck it up, sunshine.

Except that he said "major" changes are coming for bard in 4.0 /shrug Maybe he does care?

[SaitoHikari]

You're looking at this from the wrong perspective, OP. I prefer Minuet too, but most of the people that want it gone don't want it nuked from existence purely because it changes us into a caster-type class, they want it gone because the game literally ambushes you out of nowhere with a total playing style change, it even has contradictory design with some earlier skills/passives (less time to use Bloodletter resets!), and it's a straight copy/paste of a mechanic that another class already had.

If Minuet had been learned earlier, or more earlier level skills gained additional bonuses under Minuet besides Straighter Shot (which is hardly even a bonus), or Machinist didn't simply exist, then the reception to Minuet would be a lot better.

You can like something while still admitting that it is designed poorly.

[Connor]

Except that he said "major" changes are coming for bard in 4.0 /shrug Maybe he does care?

This is true, though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sceptical. The 'major changes' they made to Astrologian in 3.4 was largely just potency increases slapped on a few abilities; it was a necessary balancing move but it felt very lazily done (not to mention it caused the AST vs WHM arguments I see often). I really hope they put more thought and effort into these 'major changes' for Bard if they do go ahead.

You can like something while still admitting that it is designed poorly.

I agree, and I've made clear several times in the original post that even I don't think Minuet has been implemented well at all. Minuet as a whole probably wouldn't have had any of the backlash it caused if it weren't designed to be so counter to the rest of the job's skillset.

[ChloeGrace]

Like Connor, I'm not optimistic. Yoshida's idea of job balancing has historically favored whatever is new and shiny being overpowered.
I don't expect to see anything more than a few potency increases to keep bard's already gimped damage to scale with the other DPS jobs.

[Callinon]

Yoshida's idea of job balancing has historically favored whatever is new and shiny being overpowered.

Unless it's NIN... or MCH.... or AST.... hmm

I actually like the playstyle of WM. What I would like to see change about BRD though is its utility being attached to a sizable dps loss. That's silly. It's already limited by your MP, there's no reason for it to come with a straight dps nerf on top of everything.

[CookieMonsta]

Like Connor, I'm not optimistic. Yoshida's idea of job balancing has historically favored whatever is new and shiny being overpowered.
I don't expect to see anything more than a few potency increases to keep bard's already gimped damage to scale with the other DPS jobs.

wait wut? what are you smoking? BRD enjoyed some of the best DPS in this raid tier AND the midas raid tier. They are among the highest DPS classes right now, the only reason they're not more popular is because casters in general got crapped on this tier and WM actually gives them a skill ceiling now so not everyone who picks up the class can master it.

Give them any more damage and they can outright replace the BLMs + SMNs they're supposed to be supporting.