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  1. #1
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by ManuelBravo View Post
    I completely understand were your coming from. It's a matter of ethics, people who by clears deep down know it's the same a buying gill. They claim not to do it, but deep down they only fool themselves. If an FC helps it's members it's a different story or perhaps do it do to not enough people doing it anymore. But in MMO it's normal.
    What is different from a FC helping and a bought clear? Usually skilled FC don't even care if their new mate dies (unless it's really still tough content), oh you died to Titan.. whatever - go get some popcorn~ I have no idea if it was hard when released but when I finally got around to Ifrit in 1.0 no one was doing it, so I had three generous level 50s come in and rofl stomp him before my cutscene even finished (I shouted for 2+ hours lfp, three people came in because they felt bad for me lol). I didn't "deserve" it? Or if I had paid gil I didn't? Or it's not important because you don't care about that content now/ it's not your content?

    I understand getting people who didn't learn their job is annoying to play with when you do content where you NEED to know at least majority skill play, and I wouldn't mind if certain contents were gated behind well designed skill test Maat like fights (you do your rotation and play near peak performance, or don't pass - I probably would benefit from these as well). Just don't make it like 250 tutorials, lol.

    But it seems like the major complaint here is "I don't want to play with them, I don't like them, get them out of MY content". Which I would just laugh and say it's never going to happen, if people buy their way into 4* crafts, buy their over 9,000 gear, or whatever they still HAD to do work to do that (unless they bought the gil). They've done WORK and DESERVE the reward.

    If you're complaining that people want to offer no work (money is a form of trade-able work) and get things, then I'd just say no one likes them too lol. But usually people wonderfully skip the part where work is offered and just don't like they're aiming for something you (whoever) doesn't want to share, it's mine, my own, my precious.

    Buying gil is punishable, so we already have a solution where one need lie. Ensuring terrible players are less often in DF/PF is harder and to a certain extent impossible, also it's important to realize that people may know their job but don't know the content - dying cause you're new is different than dying cause you decided to stand in all the circles and ignore class basics (also some mechanics are just rough no matter, like lag sensitive mechanics, just complex ones in end game fights - that's why they're hard).
    (2)
    Last edited by Shougun; 01-27-2017 at 02:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    bswpayton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,918
    Character
    Nic Pay
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shougun View Post
    What is different from a FC helping and a bought clear? Usually skilled FC don't even care if their new mate dies (unless it's really still tough
    Has nothing to do with , liking someone I haven't cleared many things in the game. Im just getting to hw endgame, what Im saying is if I go into Alexander and I cant even beat Alexander then I as a player deserve not a single thing from Alexander because I was not skilled enough for that content.

    If I as a player never clear any of the hw extreme primals then I should not have access to any of the birds when stormblood comes out (using unsync method) until I can get a clear on that content at the minimum of one time. Has nothing to do with not wanting to play with certain players, It has everything to do with willfully thinking you deserve access to items or rewards that players that are better at the game than you. Those players that are better than me whether its more time spent practicing are that they just naturally more gifted than me, earned those rewards so then why should I , or anyone else thinks they deserve the same stuff and if I couldnt do what they did is beyond me.
    (1)
    Last edited by bswpayton; 01-27-2017 at 02:42 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Shougun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    9,431
    Character
    Wubrant Drakesbane
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by bswpayton View Post
    Has nothing to do with , liking someone I haven't cleared many things in the game. Im just getting to hw endgame, what Im saying is if I go into Alexander and I cant even beat Alexander then I as a player deserve not a single thing from Alexander because I was not skilled enough for that content.

    If I as a player never clear any of the hw extreme primals then I should not have access to any of the birds when stormblood comes out (using unsync method) until I can get a clear on that content at the minimum of one time. Has nothing to do with not wanting to play with certain players, It has everything to do with willfully thinking you deserve access to items or rewards that players that are better at the game than you. Those players that are better than me whether its more time spent practicing are that they just naturally more gifted than me, earned those rewards so then why should I , or anyone else thinks they deserve the same stuff and if I couldnt do what they did is beyond me.
    I think if you migrated your argument more people might get behind it (I imagine not majority but I understand what you're trying to say). But again there is significant issue with using the word deserve, since you unless you're Yoshida don't dictate what people deserve. If people can do what you describe without cheating then they do indeed actually deserve what they get - even if they didnt have to try as hard to do it.

    Having cool stuff feels cool when you know its hard to get, I can understand that. Although I vehemently disagree that a game needs limited time content, like said in another thread I think if they don't want to add it back they can always just make it cost lol.

    There is of course an issue with not keeping a rolling mountain, which is what Yoshida is doing right now (he's keeping a moving slope). That is without a moving slope old content is FAR more likely to die because no one is going to put in the effort to perfect content that only 3 other people want to do, and there is new content at the same time you have to stress over. By making it a rolling mountain they can keep people active, energized, and more content available for longer meaning the theme park gets progressively larger rather than staying around the same size through new content patches.

    Drop the whole deserve argument, because as I said that's not within your ability to dictate, and I actually understand your argument and can feel where you're coming from. Unfortunately I think the benefit from a rolling progression is better than the negatives it also brings (hard old content becomes more and more trivial as time goes on).
    (0)
    Last edited by Shougun; 01-27-2017 at 02:45 AM.