WAR damage is lacking

[CommanderNarwhal]

In end game content, it is becoming regular for paladins and darkknights to, while main tanking, parse as high as warriors or in the case of A11 savage, higher on average. Warriors lose 25% damage from being in defiance while paladins lose 15% from shield oath. Warriors gain 5% from deliverance while paladins gain a massive 75 potency attack after every auto and dark knights gain a virtually permanent 15% increase to all damage. Almost all of warriors impressive points, namely berserk and fell cleave, have become severely lacking in the face of goring blade or scourge.
High damage is a key part of what makes warriors viably applicable in raid and not having it has almost pushed double paladin into the meta.

TL;DR warrior damage is suffering, how can they put warrior back in the spot it traditionally filled as a high damage off tank without making it broken?

[BorisDaBlade]

Trolololol
Fflogs alex savage:

Pld average: 825

War average: 1275

Drk average: 1175

Your argument is invalid.

[Kai_Lee]

Ahhhh, warrior is broken, two pld will not parse higher then pld/war, the same with pld/drk will not parse higher then drk/war. Warriors bring storm eye and storm path plus has great defensive CDs, warriors tool kit is great for progression.

[CommanderNarwhal]

top FFlogs show warrior doing 2,385 and dark knight doing 2484 on 9 savage, the argument isn't invalid, its proven

[CommanderNarwhal]

At most, dark or paladin will averagely do 100 less DPS in exchange for having better defensive cooldowns and not losing 30% of their damage for being in tank stance

[SpookyGhost]

1.) WAR doesn't just gain 5% damage increase while in Deliverance, it also gains access to Fell Cleave and Decimate. On top of that, you forgot the 2% Crit+ for every Abandon stack, which works up to a 10% Crit+ at 5 stacks.

2.) The reason Boris used averages as opposed to the top parses is because we currently live in the time of speed runs, any parse at the top is either extremely catered for a parse run or the time is so low that the DPS difference gets skewed depending on when the encounter ends. On top of this, any top parse will have the WAR pulling for at least 1 GCD in Defiance, which immediately puts WAR back. Regardless, don't base DPS difference on the top parses of FFLogs especially during speedrunning season.

3.) Even if every tank had equal DPS, we would still be invaluable due to SE (DPS loss not to bring us b/c now NIN needs to apply DE) and SP (insanely potent mitigation during progression). We also have the best AOE and the highest gDPS optimal opener.

4.) jsyk Maim alone gives you higher base damage than DRK or PLD, so the differences between FC/Decimate and Goring/Scourge aren't actually that far apart. On top of this you get the crit bonus from Deliverance and the insanely important advantage of being to double/triple FC inside of Berserk.

Basically. You're just not right. Even if you were right, we are close enough to the expansion where it doesn't matter.

[aleph_null]

top FFlogs show warrior doing 2,385 and dark knight doing 2484 on 9 savage, the argument isn't invalid, its proven

Where the fuck did you pull those numbers from?

https://www.fflogs.com/rankings/13#b...ps&class=Tanks

In every boss' tank dps leaderboard wars take the most spots in the first page. In every fastest clear of each fight the war in the group outdps'd the drk, except in the fastest a9s clear, due to the war not using even a single aoe skill (no overpower no decimate) to maximize dps output on the boss, while drk has dark passenger to hit the adds. Even in a12s where wars go into timegate, they still generally outdps their groups' drk.

The only fight where drk often has more dps than war at similar percentile is a11s due to the OT's jobs in that fight, e.g. picking up adds, moving away for GA100, disengaging for spread optical sight, but at higher percentiles (95%+) war overtook drk again, possibly due to skipping adds and/or optical sights, or having the OT eat vuln stack during spread optical sight.

[BorisDaBlade]

top FFlogs show warrior doing 2,385 and dark knight doing 2484 on 9 savage, the argument isn't invalid, its proven

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://...IRjgMea5HSd8Nw

Here are the number I found.....they don't seem to match yours.

[BorisDaBlade]

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://...IRjgMea5HSd8Nw

Here are the number I found.....they don't seem to match yours.

Um did realize how out of date those were lol disregard. Lol.

[aleph_null]

The link in my post showed the top entries of tanks in a9s, 2.4k is nowhere near the top for warriors (3.3k) though that's certainly a padded run catered for the war.

I honestly don't think people should be too fixated at this MT/OT thing mentioned in OP's first post, or warriors being valuable due to their huge OT dps (which kinda made a lot of warriors refuse to pull bosses or do things that'd help the pld/drk's dps at the expense of theirs). Group strategies should prioritize whole group's dps. If the "OT" war can lose 200 dps to let the "MT" drk/pld gain 300 dps, then why not? Also like in the top a9s groups, the wars don't spam overpower or berserk'd double decimate on the adds, since that's not the optimal way to reduce kill time, they use fell cleave on the boss instead, leaving adds to off gcd skills (dark passenger, geirskogul, deathflare etc) which do not reduce the group's single target dps on the boss. Spamming overpower and decimate in a9s is a good way to pad your personal dps at the expense of the group's kill speed.

Another thing to add, war will not go out of meta, at least with the current jobs we have now. As long as they don't give slashing debuff to pld/drk, war will always have a place in an even slightly optimized group. Not bringing war means ~8-10% dps loss on both tanks, or if you bring nin for slashing debuff, it'll come at the expense of the nin's dps. Not to mention the other great things a war can offer to a group: huge aggro lead with/without unchained at pull, storm's path for early/low ilv progression, holmgang with 3m cd (you can use holmgang 3x in a12s to completely cheese 3x punishing heat + divine spear combo, which allows your drk to stack multiple cds for every other punishing heat, without having to turn grit on even once).