[dev1033] Ideas for a Two-Tier Class System: Jobs on Top of Weapon Specializations

[Cairdeas]

Great. Thanks for replying.

So that brings my next question (not trying to be picky, I'm asking because I have thought a lot about this too and this is more complicated than it seems)

So my MRD is rank 50, my GLD is 20. Can I be either a DRK 50 or 20 depending on what weapon I am using?

Or under this system, should we trash the class rank and rely solely on the physical level, like in FFTactics? There are still some ranks but they do not determine your stats, they determine what type of abilities you have access to, basically.

I like the idea that each job has its own Job Level and each Level grants you a new Passive Trait which enhances a core value of the Job itself.
Job Points for Job Levels should be earned by doing things like Questing, Partying, Leves, Companies. While Weapon Class Skill Levels should be earned by straight up combat as well as Leves and Partying.

Your actual stats could be established Four Ways Excluding Armor.
1. Your Weapon Class Skill Level
2. Your Job Level
3. Stats granted from skills equipped. Equip skills from your current Job and Class and you get more stats then if you equipped them cross class.
4. A Mix of two or more of 1-3.

Output of damage/healing power would be based on your Weapon Class skill level while your bonuses would be given based on your Job Level. The higher your Job level the more bonus passive traits you have so you become more powerful.

A White Mage Job Level 1 Might get +5% Healing Potency and the Skill: Benediction to Equip.

While a White Mage Job level 10 would have +15% Healing Potency, +10% MP, +5% HP, Trait: Auto-Regen, Skill: Benediction, Spell: Holy, Spell: Bar-Element, Spell: Flash.

These Bonuses, Traits, Skills, and Spells would be White Mage Only because they define White Mages. While Cures from your Conjurer are cross class.



Just more ideas.

[northernsky]

I like the idea that each job has its own Job Level and each Level grants you a new Passive Trait which enhances a core value of the Job itself.
Job Points for Job Levels should be earned by doing things like Questing, Partying, Leves, Companies. While Weapon Class Skill Levels should be earned by straight up combat as well as Leves and Partying.

Your actual stats could be established Four Ways Excluding Armor.
1. Your Weapon Class Skill Level
2. Your Job Level
3. Stats granted from skills equipped. Equip skills from your current Job and Class and you get more stats then if you equipped them cross class.
4. A Mix of two or more of 1-3.

Output of damage/healing power would be based on your Weapon Class skill level while your bonuses would be given based on your Job Level. The higher your Job level the more bonus passive traits you have so you become more powerful.

A White Mage Job Level 1 Might get +5% Healing Potency and the Skill: Benediction to Equip.

While a White Mage Job level 10 would have +15% Healing Potency, +10% MP, +5% HP, Trait: Auto-Regen, Skill: Benediction, Spell: Holy, Spell: Bar-Element, Spell: Flash.

These Bonuses, Traits, Skills, and Spells would be White Mage Only because they define White Mages. While Cures from your Conjurer are cross class.



Just more ideas.

So basically, you would be, say, a WHM level 1 on top of a CON level 30 and you level both at the same time, if I understand well. That sounds good.

Sounds kind of similar to the job/subjob system from XI where whatever the job you add to your basic class you get a bonus, but you get better bonuses with specific combination.

I think that the system proposed here, however, provides more flexibility and customization than the subjob system.
Also, it would be nice to level both your class and job at the same time instead of dropping everything and taking a level 1 job to 37 just because you need it as a sub but don't really want to play it as a main.

[Cairdeas]

So basically, you would be, say, a WHM level 1 on top of a CON level 30 and you level both at the same time, if I understand well. That sounds good.

Sounds kind of similar to the job/subjob system from XI where whatever the job you add to your basic class you get a bonus, but you get better bonuses with specific combination.

I think that the system proposed here, however, provides more flexibility and customization than the subjob system.
Also, it would be nice to level both your class and job at the same time instead of dropping everything and taking a level 1 job to 37 just because you need it as a sub but don't really want to play it as a main.

You would be leveling both at the same time if you were performing tasks that granted you that Job Points or Skill Points. As they would be mutually exclusive.

Also jobs would not need to go to 50. 10 could easily be the cap and once you got certain ones to 5 and then 10 you unlocked extra ones.

Also unlike the Job/Subjob system your Job and Class are on the same playing field, you don't get your power cut in half because one is to low. IE just because your Job level is too low your class isn't cut in half like it was in XI.

[northernsky]

You would be leveling both at the same time if you were performing tasks that granted you that Job Points or Skill Points. As they would be mutually exclusive.

Also jobs would not need to go to 50. 10 could easily be the cap and once you got certain ones to 5 and then 10 you unlocked extra ones.

Also unlike the Job/Subjob system your Job and Class are on the same playing field, you don't get your power cut in half because one is to low. IE just because your Job level is too low your class isn't cut in half like it was in XI.

Yeah I like that.
Like I said earlier there could a combination of grinding and questing to rank up your job, a little bit like the Maat quests from XI that allowed you to level an extra 5 but you needed to grind exp in between quests.

I'm not sure about them being mutually exclusive. Maybe it could work like exp vs merit points, or just be ranked up by doing completely different things, but I think I would like to be able to rank both of them up at the same time.

But at this point its just mechanistic the general idea is here.

If a system similar to that is implemented, I know it would be enough for me to play quite a bit regardless of quests or missions just because there would be so much goal oriented leveling.

[Akumu]

This is the way I really hope SE adds in traditional jobs. I always wanted to be different in FFXI but we all know that was very much impossible. In the end everybody of the same job pretty much used the same subs(and weapons). For example I would have loved to be able to use a sword with my DRK or DRG but that would have gimped me beyond measure. This system takes our current system and completes it(as of now it seems to be half way done).

I would like to suggest however that we do not be labeled as a WHM lv 1, 2, etc. That instead we are given a different title to show our "rank" or level of training.

For example: DRG lv10(max) would instead be considered Master Dragoon or Dragoon Elite. I think this would make people enjoy getting that new rank even more besides the new ability/trait. in my opinion it would make people feel more accomplished and proud instead of just seeing more numbers to look at.

[Cairdeas]

This is the way I really hope SE adds in traditional jobs. I always wanted to be different in FFXI but we all know that was very much impossible. In the end everybody of the same job pretty much used the same subs(and weapons). For example I would have loved to be able to use a sword with my DRK or DRG but that would have gimped me beyond measure. This system takes our current system and completes it(as of now it seems to be half way done).

I would like to suggest however that we do not be labeled as a WHM lv 1, 2, etc. That instead we are given a different title to show our "rank" or level of training.

For example: DRG lv10(max) would instead be considered Master Dragoon or Dragoon Elite. I think this would make people enjoy getting that new rank even more besides the new ability/trait. in my opinion it would make people feel more accomplished and proud instead of just seeing more numbers to look at.

Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Advanced, Master, Expert, etc?

[Akumu]

Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Advanced, Master, Expert, etc?

Yes that would be good. Its nothing major or something that would be a MUST... However, I just feel it would better to say "My GLA is R50 and I'm a Expert Dark Knight." At least something along the lines to that. Instead of I'm a rank 50 GLA and a lv10(R10?) Dark Knight.

[Carpe]

Novice, Apprentice, Journeyman, Advanced, Master, Expert, etc?

Yes that would be good. Its nothing major or something that would be a MUST... However, I just feel it would better to say "My GLA is R50 and I'm a Expert Dark Knight." At least something along the lines to that. Instead of I'm a rank 50 GLA and a lv10(R10?) Dark Knight.

This would be really cool actually. Obviously you aren't going to have to level your title from 1-50 the same way you level your weapon class since there won't be that many class-specific skills to learn. This idea of Ranks was actually something they had in crafting in FFXI (recruit, initiate, novice,..., veteran). Each rank could give you a new ability and/or new traits.

So with DRK:
Dark Knight - Recruit learns Arcane Circle & Attack Bonus
Dark Knight - Initiate learns Last Resort & Resist Paralyze
Dark Knight - Novice learns Weapon Bash & Arcana Killer
Dark Knight - Apprentice learns Soul Eater & Attack Bonus II

I'm just using FFXI as an example, but seems like something like this would work.

How to hit those rank thresholds is definitely up for debate, but maybe just gaining job points at the end of combat or through leves/quests might be the simplest. Since gaining a new rank has a new rank name I think having a kind of "test" quest would be really appropriate/fun like NorthernSky suggested.

[Carpe]

Holy wall of text, bat-man!

I read most of it, and I agree with you on almost every level. Though this would require an entire overhaul of the armoury and skill systems to function properly.. I don't think that can be avoided anymore.

I agree they couldn't leave all the abilities as-is they should work some things out of some of the weapon skills and do some re-balancing, but honestly, this seems easier to implement to me than 1)starting over from scratch, or 2)renaming all the current classes to traditional classes, adding the rest of the classes, and then reworking and rebalancing those abilities.

One thing I would want them to really do is focus more on the weapon's themes like:

MRD = Parry, Criticals, AOE
PUG = Evasion, Enfeeble Hits, Low-Stamina/Fast Hits
GLA = Accuracy, Damage Mitigation Buffs, Magic-Imbued Hits
THM = Debuffs, Over-time effects, Light/Dark

I think differentiating these a bit more based on some common themes will make them add a lot more to the play style experience and require you to use more tactics and think about how a certain weapon choice will influence your character design.

[Eremor]

A simple way to implement this kind of system would be to simply change the physical level into a job level.

Your current job/title would be determined by what skills you currently have equipped. For example, if you had certain sword, shield, and healing magic skills equipped then your job would be Paladin. Any EXP you gained would increase your job level and your job level would give you a bonus based on that jobs specialization, ex. Paladin would increase your defense and healing magic. As well as possibly unlocking job specific skills, though there would be fewer of these then Discipline based skills.

This would effectively allow you to be a Paladin with any weapon as long as you kept those required skills equipped (Though in the case of Paladin it would make those shield skills wasted slots). Ideally the skills required to qualify for any job would not use up all 30 action slots, allowing you to be a specific job with a specific role but still allowing for customization with the remaining slots.

Finally, for new players and for anyone who does not want to be a specific job. There would be a default job for when you don't have the skills to qualify for any other job. This could be Squire or maybe Onion Knight, and it could give a simple stat bonus or maybe a general bonus to all of your skills. That way people who choose not to be a specialist won't feel gimped or that they are wasting EXP.