BRD/MCH in 4.0

[magnanimousCynic]

Are bad players still not allowed to enjoy the game aswell lol?

Where did I say bad people can't enjoy the game? I said that there were bad Bards before WM came out. Don't fill my mouth with words.

We chose bard because we didn't want to be a mage.

If you didn't want to be a mage then you could've chosen a Melee DPS. And who's this "We" that you're speaking for?

I found bard was a way I could play and still have fun .... I know a lot of bard mains agree they would like to see bard return to the way it was.

I assume the "way it was" that you're talking about is the free movement all the time. If you need to keep moving as a Bard, then you're moving too much. Period.

And besides, if you DO need to move for a mechanic, you can either use Feint or just turn briefly off WM if you need to move for two GCDs or longer.

[SugarBunz]

well I am not getting into a battle with your over points that I have brought up that MANY have also brought up I just stating many (bard mains) want it returned and I hope SQ is taking this into serious consideration. YOU however obviously came here with your panties in a bunch looking for a fight, so our convo ends here

[Feidam]

I say let's give the bards what they want. Let's take away WM and let them run around like an idiot again bouncing and spinning during boss fights. Now since they they can stay in perpetual motion let's also knock their dps down a good notch since they can now derp mechanics again.

Bard was OP in the beginning of ARR then took a serious nerf and was pretty useless and only brought along to float the BLM's damage. For balance to have the old bard back means it will have to go back to being bottom of the food chain. Only there to prop up other classes. The ability to avoid mechanics while having constant dps needs a serious drawback based on what the other classes have to do to achieve the necessary levels of dps.

[HyperiusUltima]

SugarBunz you need to realize that WM only provides the restraint to put BRD's DPS back in line with other DPS. Sure, it's there to help others, but in general BRD's overall DPS is based on your skill to play a semi-mobile caster. If you want to go that far, play SMN for practice. It's the most mobile out of all casters, and BRD having cast times was to reduce their freedom of movement and DPS without WM in Heavensward so that BRD wasn't an overpowered piece of crap that could be a possible DPS Powerhouse.

Melee have to sacrifice their DPS to avoid mechanics and AoEs at times, especially when an AoE envelops the entire Melee Range of the boss. BRD in ARR had no issue doing such. I do not want ARR BRD to return since WM actually is very fun to play and it brings the same challenge as HW did.

[Reinha]

I say let's give the bards what they want. Let's take away WM and let them run around like an idiot again bouncing and spinning during boss fights. Now since they they can stay in perpetual motion let's also knock their dps down a good notch since they can now derp mechanics again.

You are attributing idiocy to a playstyle that is fun to some people. Can you explain your position? My position that moving is fun is because it brings something more to do in the slow feeling combat.

Yes, more mobility means less damage but I was under the impression that bard/mch were still the bottom damage as support jobs despite getting cast times. If not, can you name a job that typically does lower damage and can you also explain why bards and machinists are not being stacked in raids?

Bard was OP in the beginning of ARR then took a serious nerf and was pretty useless and only brought along to float the BLM's damage. For balance to have the old bard back means it will have to go back to being bottom of the food chain. Only there to prop up other classes. The ability to avoid mechanics while having constant dps needs a serious drawback based on what the other classes have to do to achieve the necessary levels of dps.

The nerf was what brought them in line with others considering their mobility. I have no issue with doing less damage if I'm allowed to continue doing damage while dodging. Stopping what you were doing and concentrating on only one thing at a time is not fun to me, but continuing what you were doing whilst simultaneously reacting to a threat is what's fun to me. Melee get interrupted, casters get interrupted and now ranged get interrupted too. On top of this the oGCD usage is cumbersome especially with some lag and bard has nothing to alleviate it like machinist does.

You contradict yourself in the bolded part. Either bard was useless or it had a secured place in raid teams. Which was it? Low damage doesn't mean useless if they can support others enough and perhaps handle some mechanics that other jobs don't want to. You also seem to imply in your tone that "propping up" other classes is somehow unfavorable to doing more dps. Some people would happily trade more dps for more support. Different preferences are why we (used to) have job options.

[MPNZ]

If you didn't want to be a mage then you could've chosen a Melee DPS.

So, we should just have no diversity whatsoever? Seriously, one of the bigger complaints since the launch of 3.0 has been the almost total homogenization of jobs.

I assume the "way it was" that you're talking about is the free movement all the time. If you need to keep moving as a Bard, then you're moving too much. Period.

And besides, if you DO need to move for a mechanic, you can either use Feint or just turn briefly off WM if you need to move for two GCDs or longer.

Like, with Talurd and Titan EX. But, it's not like most of the main story content since 3.0 has been actually difficult or varied in terms of mechanics and stuff as opposed to the increased lengths of job rotations and stance dancing in the middle of everything being almost all of the difficulty in-game.

[Greedalox]

Mobility is an asset, so due to MCH/BRD being so similar- would BRD players be willing to take a hefty DPS comparative to MCH loss in order to get their pure mobility back? That's really the question, which case MCH who are able to handle mechanics while being mildly limited mobile wise will be immensely more sought after than BRD.

Otherwise I hope that BRDs in here aren't hoping for just a flat and immense buff without the loss of something equal elsewhere.

[MPNZ]

Mobility is an asset, so due to MCH/BRD being so similar- would BRD players be willing to take a hefty DPS comparative to MCH loss in order to get their pure mobility back? That's really the question, which case MCH who are able to handle mechanics while being mildly limited mobile wise will be immensely more sought after than BRD.

Otherwise I hope that BRDs in here aren't hoping for just a flat and immense buff without the loss of something equal elsewhere.

I could actually name a few ideas, but it would be much easier for the dev team to move bard into a direction that would focus more on it's songs and abilities like shadowbind and blunt arrow instead of having a long chain of actions and buffs to manage. Also, it's the combination of the nerfs to shadowbind and our damage output that really hurt me the most from the ARR patches, IMO.

[Xenosan]

If I could pitch an adjustment/direction to SE for BRD, it would be more about making musical sound an element of it's playstyle. If not incorporated as a change to WM, it could be a new skill. So this is just a concept:
This new skill (or adjusted WM) gives BRD a 4-stack buff. The next 4 GCD attacks exhaust a stack, and attack power increasing with each stack exhausted (essentially creating a 1 > 2 > 3 > 4 combo out of Heavy/Straight/Emp/etc).

But unlike other stack resource abilities like Aetherflow/Wrath, the stack count isn't visible on BRD's status bar. Instead, the buff replaces (or adds to) the sound-effect the stack-consuming GCD Weaponskills make with a unique musical-note from the harp: Do - Re - Mi - Fa or something.

You can count the stacks based on the audio cue opposed to a visual. Audio cues and audio rewards from optimal rotation and CD use. The audio being a nice cue to track your rotation.

If you play with the game muted, you could just count your GCDs after buff activation, or watch your status bar like other jobs. Audio dependance is a problem with this concept. But I think that would be a great distinction for a new & different mechanic for XIV's 'musical' job. Apply this audio concept to other CDs like Raging or WM or Hawk's Eye, BRD makes (goodish) music while burning fools, that music also serving as a guide to the player in keeping with an optimal rotation and maintaining DOTs. That's my crazy for today, sorry if off topic, my brain just wandered a minuet.

[Rinion]

If they got rid of the bow mage gameplay of it I might actually start playing bard again.

Seen a few suggestions for bed that scrap minuet such as giving a stacking buff that builds the more you stay still. And falls off the more you move. Taking 2 or 3 steps to dodgensure an aoe for example might only lose 1 stack. Taking more than that would lose more stacks.

They do need to scrap the bow mage element though. Turn the class back into an archer and not a wannabe mage

This idea is a really good one to me. I don't like WM (never have) but I've tried to get used to it. I play SCH/AST all the time, so a lack of mobility isn't my issue. The issue I have is with the dodgy cast times. It's jarring if you've only played casters and it's jarring if you've only played bard to 50.