Healing Magic Potency for non-healers

[Pireco]

At very least, the actual effect of things like cure when used by a PLD, or other caster should scale in proportion to the level of the character. I'm not suggesting that non healers should beb able to heal half as well as actual healers, only that the relative performance of the spell maintains the same relative position it has at level 1 at level 30, 40, 50, 60 and beyond - make it scale correctly please.



PLD is more or less explicitly a hybrid job with GLD and CNJ required to obtain it. Of all the different jobs, PLD has the best case for being some form of hybrid, or at least having better scaling of healing power.

i disagree, a PLD can't heal at will since every clemency is 1/3 (maybe more, i havent played PLD in a while) of his mp, my concern is giving an acessible (low ocd or gcd) healing skill to non-healers

[Evangela]

Yeah, as it is right now it's kinda useless. Spamming 350 hp healing will never save your life.

[Blazinhart]

"Let's take off Role limitation"

That's What I'm Reading when I read this thread. Which is not cool, because why having a Healer if all classes can heal then? I hope with 4.0 they let Jobs really related to their roles and remove healing for other roles, enmity generator (which never was used btw) and dps and leave it for the role that suits it.

[Kosmos992k]

i disagree, a PLD can't heal at will since every clemency is 1/3 (maybe more, i havent played PLD in a while) of his mp, my concern is giving an acessible (low ocd or gcd) healing skill to non-healers

Excuse me, PLD is a hybrid Gladiator/Conjurer with access to cure. There is no reason for that spell to scale so appallingly, quite the opposite really since Conjurer is required for Paladin. Clemency was added to PLD, but as you point out it's more of an emergency heal due to MP consumption. But, even if you let PLD's Cure scale linearly with level it's never, ever going to compete with a real healer. It does however add more utility since it provides a lower potency heal than Clemency that can be used more frequently.

I'm all for distinguishing jobs from each other, but I'm also mindful of the job requirements. if CNJ is required to obtain a job, that does strongly suggest whatever job it is is a hybrid with conjurer (healer) capability. And yet before Clemency, PLDs healing abilities are terribly ineffective. I'm not suggesting that PLD or any other non healer should rival an actual healer for potency, flexibility or utility as a healer. But PLD in particular already has the worst DPS of any tank and certain issues with aggro. I see no reason why leaning more strongly on the hybrid nature of the job to increase PLD utility is a bad thing for anyone.

P.S. I main PLD and have WHM/SCH as my secondary jobs, and my partner is a pure WHM all the way. I'm in no way biased against healers nor do I want anything that would diminish their role.

[Pireco]

Excuse me, PLD is a hybrid Gladiator/Conjurer with access to cure. There is no reason for that spell to scale so appallingly, quite the opposite really since Conjurer is required for Paladin.

The things is, there are NO hybrid jobs int he game now, i guess we arent in the same page, hybrid in my conception is reagarding role, and PLD isnt hybrid in anyway , job requirements is something that is there since job system was implemented in ff and in ffxiv it means nothing but an adaptation to this game's design,so lets just agree to disagree.

[Blazinhart]

snip .

I main PLD and i have no issues with aggro. And though before his Cure was ineffective, he is able to cast protect and stoneskin which shows that his CNJ requisite wasn\\\\'t in vain. And I didn\\\\'t get if you are against or in favor of healing for non-healers because you\\\\'re saying Jobs that require CNj should heal better, and the only two Jobs which require CNj are PLD and SCH. Só the other shouldn\\\\'t get healing spell.

IMO they should distinguish more each role than hybrid it. If you wanna heal a lot, be a Healer, if you wanna dps a lot, play as one, if you wanna lead the party and hold aggro, be a Tank. And if you wanna do something different than you\\\\'re doing, change jobs. That\\\\'s why it\\\\'s possible.

I see people just wanting to use one job and want it to be all-in-one.
If they do that, why queue as a Healer, or a Tank?

[Blazinhart]

The things is, there are NO hybrid jobs int he game now, i guess we arent in the same page, hybrid in my conception is reagarding role, and PLD isnt hybrid in anyway , job requirements is something that is there since job system was implemented in ff and in ffxiv it means nothing but an adaptation to this game's design,so lets just agree to disagree.

Agreed. Hybrid is something that can do two distinguised things in equal capacity. PLD can't heal constantly, he is just a "Oh shit! [Hit Clemency]" moment.

[Korbash]

"Let's take off Role limitation"

That's What I'm Reading when I read this thread. Which is not cool, because why having a Healer if all classes can heal then? I hope with 4.0 they let Jobs really related to their roles and remove healing for other roles, enmity generator (which never was used btw) and dps and leave it for the role that suits it.

As long as we're forced to solo the MSQ's instances and our jobs' quests, then the healing skills are a need and a not a want, and they should scale better at max level. The day the entirety of the MSQ and the jobs's quests become dungeons with 1 tank, one 1 healer, 1 DPS and me, I wouldn't it if they remove the healing so the healer takes care of healing Alphinaud and us.

[Madrone]

"Let's take off Role limitation"

That's What I'm Reading when I read this thread. Which is not cool, because why having a Healer if all classes can heal then? I hope with 4.0 they let Jobs really related to their roles and remove healing for other roles, enmity generator (which never was used btw) and dps and leave it for the role that suits it.

Nah, its more like let's make non-healer healing skills more even across the board. Or let's make cross classed healing spells scale closer to how they were between level 10-50. Or even let's fix broken scaling of Physick/Cure when used cross classed.

I wouldn't advocate being able to use Cure/Physick like a i260+ healer with 1200+ MND by using caster's INT or PLD's STR/VIT ratio thing. But I am stating outright that sub-200 base MND is not adequate to make these skills effective with our current and future hp pools. So why do we even still have these taking up cross class space? Please fix/remove/replace them or natural MND values in the cross class system/4.0 changes. "Fixing" = they work with up to about half of that power, equivalent of ~600 MND in today's terms, in the hands of casters/PLD/any class. They'd still be very weak compared to a healer casting them, but at least they'd be more comparable to every DPS's self-heal abilities/drain-on-hit attacks, etc.

There are other ways to go. BLM could have a Drain ability in its 61+ skills as an example, and drop Physick from its list. SMN is stuck with a 100% junk innate spell. So maybe a small fix is a more fair way to handle it, or maybe it'll be removed from ACN natively and regrouped as a pretty much mandatory basic heal from the healer role skills. I've been waiting for a SMN to chime and be like "why am I stuck with this worthless spell? Its not even cross class, so I can't drop it. Just a waste of space because of the split jobs."


@ PLD discussion. Its a case of job identity stemming from past Final Fantasy games. PLD has basic white magic spells, and is otherwise an defensive melee fighter with abilities to protect himself and the party. SE kept the white magic aspect of PLD in XIV with its cross class CNJ spells. Raise doesn't work in combat though, and Cure scales badly without getting MND on all your gear. To be fair, while tanking it can be difficult to gets spells off, and dps is all most people care about. Clemency is one answer to the problem. Its a strong heal based on PLD's main stats, but very pricey on mp. The same Physick fix for Caster's would probably not work as well to fix Cure for PLD. It'd still be pretty weak... like say 1600ish, which is a drop in the bucket compared to tank hp. But at least it'd be cheap and still much better than the 400ish it does now.

[RaijinSupreme]

As long as we're forced to solo the MSQ's instances and our jobs' quests, then the healing skills are a need and a not a want, and they should scale better at max level. The day the entirety of the MSQ and the jobs's quests become dungeons with 1 tank, one 1 healer, 1 DPS and me, I wouldn't it if they remove the healing so the healer takes care of healing Alphinaud and us.

With that logic, we all should have been failing our solo instances in the msq from the beginning. If dps classes needed healing abilities in order to make it through those solo instances, then how did anyone playing the game come out successful?