Red Mage Gear - DoM or DoW?

[Velhart]

For stats, yes, that is very likely what the case will be and is nicely balanced. But that list breaks down when used as an argument for equippable gear which is what the question is about. The STR and DEX gear sets both already have 2 separate sets each.
1. DRG (maiming)
2. MNK/SAM? (striking)
3. NIN (scouting)
4. BRD/MCH (aiming)
5. BLM/SMN (casting)

I suspect that RDM will get its own "6. RDM (fencing)" rather than become part of a "5. BLM/SMN/RDM (casting)" set. Caveat: low level gear, and thus low level glamour items, will be more general, obviously.

It very likely is not going to happen, sorry to disappoint you. They already got a ton of flack for bloating the loot table with Scouting gear. Also by your logic, why doesn't DRK use their own set? Or MCH? Or AST? Where is my Jacket of Shooting?

People can do mental gymnastics all you want in attempts to justify it having it's own set, but it is confirmed as a ranged caster. It is a DoM. Common sense says they are put into Casting gear.

Also for future jobs, how is SE going to accommodate more gear sets for other new jobs in the future? You have to think what is actually practical over what seems cool in your head.

[Beckett]

They already got a ton of flack for bloating the loot table with Scouting gear.

I swear to Halone, Return to Ishgard had better have a token system.

[Mhaeric]

I've already listed several practical considerations if you go back and read. E.g. RDM and BLU. SAM has a place to share with either MNK ot DRG depending on whether they prefer the eastern look or the tankier plate look for it.

As for DRK (and AST) not getting its own look... that can probably be explained by the relative populations of tank and healer archetypes. Putting all the tanks (and healers) into one loot group of 3+ jobs favours playing more than one or two of those archetypes because you'll have several of them well geared by virtue of gearing one. Limiting dps to one or two per gear set encourages playing different archetypes since you won't automatically have a bunch of dps jobs well geared because you geared one of them. In short, it's a subtle way of nudging players to be more likely to play the less popular tank and healer archetypes.

[FeliAiko]

You just argued in favour of RDM having their own look for gear. Red Mages in every incarnation from the main series wear leather and chain type armor unlike other casting jobs.


This is a more valid argument in favour of stacking armor types. The other side of that argument, however, is loot meaningfulness. Are we supposed to easily gear multiple jobs with a single drop?

Yes, you are, because that's the whole point of this games Armory System, as part of it's selling point (i.e how you can play/switch between multiple Jobs on one character).

E.g. Blue Mage will very likely be coming at some point (even possibly instead of SAM - that's still not 100% settled) and that would easily share a set with RDM.

So the Job (SAM) that was in serious contention with DRK as the 3.0 flagship tank is less likely to appear in XIV over the Job (BLU) that Yoshi has stated on 2 occasions as not being suitable for XIV's environment? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Having 4 mage jobs rolled into the caster set would make gearing all 4 simultaneously very easy.

So what. This is already a thing with the current Tanks and Healers, as well as NIN/BRD/MCH (right side loot). Also, again being able to gear multiple Jobs of the same role is part of this game's design. If anything, making RDM share Caster loot would not only encourage existing Casters towards picking it up, but also the reverse with new players that pick up RDM and later on become curious on how the other Caster Jobs play.

[Velhart]

I've already listed several practical considerations if you go back and read. E.g. RDM and BLU. SAM has a place to share with either MNK ot DRG depending on whether they prefer the eastern look or the tankier plate look for it.

As for DRK (and AST) not getting its own look... that can probably be explained by the relative populations of tank and healer archetypes. Putting all the tanks (and healers) into one loot group of 3+ jobs favours playing more than one or two of those archetypes because you'll have several of them well geared by virtue of gearing one. Limiting dps to one or two per gear set encourages playing different archetypes since you won't automatically have a bunch of dps jobs well geared because you geared one of them. In short, it's a subtle way of nudging players to be more likely to play the less popular tank and healer archetypes.

The categories exist to begin with so the system isn't bloated. The reason Scouting even exists is because the developers believe that a DEX based melee can be it's own category that multiple jobs in the future can branch off of. How many jobs do you plan on putting in Fencing gear? Why not just have job specific gear? I am sure that wouldn't be a huge damper on their resources.

[Natashio]

I don't get this argument. What does it matter in which group Red Mage gets plugged in. If you're not glamouring the Pimp hat and jacket 24/7-365 until Yoshida flips out and dumps this game, why bother playing Red Mage. Though don't get your hopes up that Red Mage artifact gear will be released with the disk, cause that's not gonna happen. So just suffer for a while.

[Radacci]

You just argued in favour of RDM having their own look for gear. Red Mages in every incarnation from the main series wear leather and chain type armor unlike other casting jobs.

Blue Mage will very likely be coming at some point

thematically sure, but it would be ridiculous to give them their own line of gear, for only that; as i said, then they might as well give a darkness line of gear to DRK as well, and a savagery to WAR, and maybe Librarian for SCH while we're at it.
they aren't going to add new types of gear, unless there's a practical reason for it...at least i hope so -.- if they add a fencing set, i'll get really triggered.

depends on what role they will be.
it's better to gear 4 similar jobs at the same time, than having to gear 15 separate jobs...you can be any job on one character, so why wouldn't one caster job be able to use caster gear, that all other casters, can? no one has ever complained about DRK sharing gear with PLD/WAR, so why are ppl complaining about RDM sharing gear with other casters, when they are as thematically varied?
we had 6 to begin with, then they added scouting, and fencing next? so when will it end? beast for BLU, cause robes don't fit their looks? blademaster for SAM, cause the other tank/drg gear don't fit them?

Oh please. Thematically, BLM and SMN are fine with robes since they don't move when casting.

And their combat stye doesn't require a lot of movement.

they are fine with being in sleeping bags too, since they aren't moving a lot, that doesn't mean it makes sense.
ranged don't move a lot either, esp after getting cast bars, so lets stuff them in robes too?

anyway lol, i thought this thread would only need 1 simple reply, but trust the FF community to overly complicate things cause of nostalgia.
just remember Yoshi has been quite adamant about keeping things simple, and dumbing down content for beginners, as well as pruning skill bloat, so it's not unlikely that you'll eventually have 5+ jobs sharing gear.
it's enough with every job having their own artifact armors.

[Radacci]

speaking of artifact armors, how many ppl do you actually see running around in thematically accurate glamours? 0,1% of players?
99% of red mages are going to be female miq/au'ra in a variety of skimpy clothing that has nothing to do with RDM theme, so /shrug.

[EdwinLi]

speaking of artifact armors, how many ppl do you actually see running around in thematically accurate glamours? 0,1% of players?
99% of red mages are going to be female miq/au'ra in a variety of skimpy clothing that has nothing to do with RDM theme, so /shrug.

Guess I'll be in the 0.01% that does neither with my Red Mage once I main that job.

[Madrone]

So here's the can of worms as far as I can see being discussed: Just how much like a caster and how much like a melee will it be as a hybrid?

Defense) RDM should probably have better physical defense than DoM if they're jumping into melee range. It isn't essential, but it'd be a situation like DRG in early 2.0 when it had bad magic defense.

Aesthetics) RDM probably shouldn't do the robed mage look a whole lot. Its not historically restricted to mage armor.

Loot pool/gear sharing) I'd like to easily switch between RDM and BLM (or SMN), but I'm more inclined to think it'll have its own INT-based left side set. More loot in the pool is going to eventually lead to more token exchanges or more drops per chest.

Main stat) Probably INT. All magic except Ninjitsu is either INT or MND. Will it have a stancing/conversion system where it can change effectiveness of certain skills/spells?

Substats) Speeds need to be unified by 4.0 battle system changes, along with removal of accuracy and parry. Or RDM needs to have 1 speed apply to melee and magic.

Auto-attacks) Yoshi mentioned auto-attacks and adjusting damage output for being at range so it isn't penalized by its in/out positional style. A big difference between melees and casters and ranged is their weapon D/auto-attacks/stance which are meant to balance output of their very different attack patterns. Will be interesting to see how they make it work for RDM.

Cross Role Skills/Native utility) Same choices as casters? More options due to hybrid nature? Any of the CNJ healing kit for situational use (Raise, Stoneskin, Cure, Protect)? If it has a utility heal or personal heal, how would it compare to caster Physick or melee Second Wind? Will it inflict one or more damage vulnerabilities, and which? Will its damage be entirely magical? What sort of utility aside from caster debuffs will it bring to the table natively?

Limit Break) Caster or Melee?

8-man slot) Will RDM displace DRG/MNK/NIN offering comparable utilities/damage vulnerability infliction? Or will it compete with casters? Will it be able to fill in function for either slot in most ways (except for LB)?


LB & gear type will be the defining factors I think when it comes to party slot. Who you compete with for gear should be who you compete with for a spot in the party most of the time. LB type is an important factor in party comp as well, given 3 types present in a healthy dps comp, and 4 dps slots available.