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  1. #1
    Player
    VTXShiva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    44
    Character
    T'paoh Djanis
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Naunet View Post
    This is the game that decided to charge monthly RENT for more inventory space (retainers), which is absurd even for free-to-play game standards - which this game is not.
    They also decided that charging for old holiday content was preferable to the system they had in place (old holiday content on vendors) for a year.
    I can't think of a single person (though I suppose there probably was one or two) who demanded SE charge money to skip the MSQ prior to their decision - certainly not in any thread that received wide support or discussion.
    1. Renting or buying inventory space in F2P is pretty much standard practice.
    There are plenty more controversial topics than this. Additionally they made it clear multiple times there were other constraints, which are addressed in considerable proportions come SB. At that point you'll likely only pay retainers for the market selling option or venture option. If anything, the market selling limitation i find MUCH more controversial than the inventory space, but to each their own.
    2. I'd rather they sell cosmetic stuff that almost nobody ever uses in-game (outside of a few days once a year) than to have those self-same items removed completely from the game to sate some silly sense of "prestige" as some other MMOs do.
    3. Just because you didn't see a megathread on it doesn't mean
    A it never existed or
    B was never discussed.
    People discuss these things in many forms: official forum threads, un-official forum threads, Tweets, facebook posts, in-game, support tickets, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naunet View Post
    (Though tbh, I loved almost every minute of Cata.)
    That said, it's a very flawed argument to point out a correlation when you KNOW that correlation =/= causation.
    Cataclysm was the first expansion i ever dropped my sub for multiple months on end, Especially towards the end. The quality of the expansion was overall worse than the ones before. But again, that's subjective data.
    Correlation does not IMPLY causation, it doesn't mean it should't be analyzed or considered at all. Fact is, there were complaints about the quality of the expansion, fact is numbers were lost and not to the extent of numbers go down, numbers go up. They went CONSISTENTLY down. Is there a correlation? maybe, is it significant? I don't know.
    (0)
    Last edited by VTXShiva; 12-24-2016 at 01:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Naunet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    3,004
    Character
    Mide Uyagir
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by VTXShiva View Post
    1. Renting or buying inventory space in F2P is pretty much standard practice.
    Buying, yes. Renting? No. And this is NOT a F2P game.

    Though good job ignoring the actual point I was making regarding the likelihood that SE is at all being charitable by offering skip potions.

    Quote Originally Posted by VTXShiva View Post
    I repeat myself. What is "fair"? And at what point isn't it just "player" greed?
    This is some serious mental gymnastics to turn a company's desire to profit as much as possible back on the consumer and call the consumer greedy. I would give you applause, but honestly, I'm unsettled. What is the threshold at which you are defining "player greed"? Are you willing to play a game where your character is a grey box moving through the world? You don't need a pretty face and clothes, after all.
    (9)
    Last edited by Naunet; 12-24-2016 at 05:55 AM.

  3. #3
    Player ErikMynhier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,507
    Character
    Erik Mynhier
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Naunet View Post
    Buying, yes. Renting? No. And this is NOT a F2P game.
    Actually Elder Scrolls Online does rent storage. Inventory is at a premium, when you get an optional sub you get an infinite crafting bag for all your mats that is let me tell you, amazing. I know its not F2P but B2P but still the sub "rents" you the inventory space, and not continuing the sub causes you to lose it. So in a sense you are renting inventory space. So VTXShiva is correct.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Stanelis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    929
    Character
    Irvy Ryath
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 85
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikMynhier View Post
    Actually Elder Scrolls Online does rent storage. Inventory is at a premium, when you get an optional sub you get an infinite crafting bag for all your mats that is let me tell you, amazing. I know its not F2P but B2P but still the sub "rents" you the inventory space, and not continuing the sub causes you to lose it. So in a sense you are renting inventory space. So VTXShiva is correct.
    When you "rent" storage in ESO (which is then unlimited) you also gain access to all DLC and other bonuses. When your subscription runs out, you still get access to the items in the storage box but cannot put any new items inside. Also, ESO provides you with cash shop currency when you subscribe, so you can buy cosmetic stuff from the cash shops (including the DLCs).

    Hence, you don't really "rent" storage in ESO, when you subscribe you gain a large array of benefits (the main one is the access to all DLCs, and there is a fair amount of stuff to do in those) and that extended inventory is one of them.

    Teso might have one of the fairest cash shop I've ever seen (with LoL's one), because it doesn't rely on the player frustration to sell you stuff. Also, as already stated, TESO is a B2P game without any mandatory subscription fee (and the game can be played fine without any subscription), which isn't the same as FFXIV (a game with a mandatory subscription fee). Despite what VTXShiva is saying, I can guarantee you players won't take kindly if the leveling experience becomes artificially bloated so SE can sell potion despite the subscription cost.

    The "threat" is cute but you misunderstand. If they do something bad, they'll suffer for it based on market demands etc. If the product isn't good it stops being bought. Of COURSE it's in their best interest to make it balanced, or specifically, a worthwhile product.
    But "balanced' is a very vague nebulous and subjective term we can argue over until the end of time.
    Moreso the word itself is a term that focuses on the control of ups and downs. It's not "in balance" if everything is good, or everything is bad.
    The MMORPG market is a very volatile one and more than a few games have collapsed over small bad design decisions which totally ruined some aspects of the game (wildstar is a good example, but wow isn't doing that hot). ALso, you re basically saying what I do, but I can guarantee you a jumping potion is a fast-track toward flawed leveling design. Already, the fact that you cannot start expansion's MSQ without finishing the previous expansion one is a red flag.
    (3)
    Last edited by Stanelis; 12-25-2016 at 08:10 AM.