[dev1033] Ideas for a Two-Tier Class System: Jobs on Top of Weapon Specializations

[Carpe]

I like the idea.

I'm just curious of what would be the impact on playing the basic jobs.
More specifically, say your title is Paladin. Do you start PLD rank 1 and earn exclusively PLD skill points?

If those "titles" become the norm and the basic classes are just used to acquire abilities, will they be desirable in exp parties, missions, quests? We will still need to take them to a high level to get those stronger abilities but will they still be competitive at a comparable rank?

I'm not saying it could not work, I'm just curious

Once you unlock titles you will always have one equipped in addition to your weapon class. You never stop being a Gladiator if you are using swords, you just add a title on TOP of this that gives you access to you job-specific stuff (Like for DRK soul eater, last resort, ATK bonus). If you left your title as DRK and decided to switch weapon to say AXE you would effectively change from a DRK/GLA to a DRK/MRD, this would stop you from leveling up GLA in combat, but you would start leveling MRD is combat just like they way you switch your weapons now.

So you can't be a DRK (a title/job) without being also a GLA or a MRD (or some kind of weapon specialist). The title defines your "role" and the weapon defines your "weapon specialty"

You never stop leveling your weapon class that's equipped (as long as it isn't max level) since this is going to be the main source of your "general" "not-class-specific" spells and abilities, the spells and abilities that you can use between classes.

You could think of your character before unlocking a title as being like an "adventurer" in FFV when you were out fighting and leveling up but hadn't specified your job or role yet. Right now in FFXIV we are all like "adventurers".

Remember Titles and Weapon Class are on different planes. You can have a DRK be either a DRK/GLA or a DRK/MRD, but you cant have a GLA/MRD or a DRK/PLD.

So mixing a title with a weapon class further defines your playstyle. A BLM defines your role because you have access to certain abilities and traits that improve your ability to deal magic damage. Deciding to use CON or THM helps you define your playstyle/skill specialty.

CON specializes in spells that act instantly like CURE
THM specializes in spells that act over time like SACRIFICE

So a BLM/CON is specialist in instant magic damage
while a BLM/THM is a specialist in over-time magic damage.

It isn't really as clear-cut as that, but the general idea is that a BLM/CON is saying he wants to be a magic damage dealer that specializes in Conjury Skills while a BLM/THM is a magic damage dealer that wants to specialize in Thaumaturgy Skills.

[lordpyriel]

I do like the idea behind this and would love to see something like it implemented. I would like to see more weapon types in game like a great sword, scythe, hell even a whip could be cool. maybe the "title" not have levels per se but points that can be use to get/buy "title" specific abilities/spells, etc.

All in all, I like the idea and would like to see something like it cause classes now have no role and were poorly thought out in my eyes tho I like the armory system and being able to pick different thing to put on say LNC.

[northernsky]

Once you unlock titles you will always have one equipped in addition to your weapon class. You never stop being a Gladiator if you are using swords, you just add a title on TOP of this that gives you access to you job-specific stuff (Like for DRK soul eater, last resort, ATK bonus).

So you can't be a DRK without being also a GLA or a MRD. The title defines your "role" and the weapon defines your "weapon specialty"

Great. Thanks for replying.

So that brings my next question (not trying to be picky, I'm asking because I have thought a lot about this too and this is more complicated than it seems)

So my MRD is rank 50, my GLD is 20. Can I be either a DRK 50 or 20 depending on what weapon I am using?

Or under this system, should we trash the class rank and rely solely on the physical level, like in FFTactics? There are still some ranks but they do not determine your stats, they determine what type of abilities you have access to, basically.

[Cairdeas]

Great. Thanks for replying.

So that brings my next question (not trying to be picky, I'm asking because I have thought a lot about this too and this is more complicated than it seems)

So my MRD is rank 50, my GLD is 20. Can I be either a DRK 50 or 20 depending on what weapon I am using?

Or under this system, should we trash the class rank and rely solely on the physical level, like in FFTactics? There are still some ranks but they do not determine your stats, they determine what type of abilities you have access to, basically.

I like the idea that each job has its own Job Level and each Level grants you a new Passive Trait which enhances a core value of the Job itself.
Job Points for Job Levels should be earned by doing things like Questing, Partying, Leves, Companies. While Weapon Class Skill Levels should be earned by straight up combat as well as Leves and Partying.

Your actual stats could be established Four Ways Excluding Armor.
1. Your Weapon Class Skill Level
2. Your Job Level
3. Stats granted from skills equipped. Equip skills from your current Job and Class and you get more stats then if you equipped them cross class.
4. A Mix of two or more of 1-3.

Output of damage/healing power would be based on your Weapon Class skill level while your bonuses would be given based on your Job Level. The higher your Job level the more bonus passive traits you have so you become more powerful.

A White Mage Job Level 1 Might get +5% Healing Potency and the Skill: Benediction to Equip.

While a White Mage Job level 10 would have +15% Healing Potency, +10% MP, +5% HP, Trait: Auto-Regen, Skill: Benediction, Spell: Holy, Spell: Bar-Element, Spell: Flash.

These Bonuses, Traits, Skills, and Spells would be White Mage Only because they define White Mages. While Cures from your Conjurer are cross class.



Just more ideas.

[northernsky]

I like the idea that each job has its own Job Level and each Level grants you a new Passive Trait which enhances a core value of the Job itself.
Job Points for Job Levels should be earned by doing things like Questing, Partying, Leves, Companies. While Weapon Class Skill Levels should be earned by straight up combat as well as Leves and Partying.

Your actual stats could be established Four Ways Excluding Armor.
1. Your Weapon Class Skill Level
2. Your Job Level
3. Stats granted from skills equipped. Equip skills from your current Job and Class and you get more stats then if you equipped them cross class.
4. A Mix of two or more of 1-3.

Output of damage/healing power would be based on your Weapon Class skill level while your bonuses would be given based on your Job Level. The higher your Job level the more bonus passive traits you have so you become more powerful.

A White Mage Job Level 1 Might get +5% Healing Potency and the Skill: Benediction to Equip.

While a White Mage Job level 10 would have +15% Healing Potency, +10% MP, +5% HP, Trait: Auto-Regen, Skill: Benediction, Spell: Holy, Spell: Bar-Element, Spell: Flash.

These Bonuses, Traits, Skills, and Spells would be White Mage Only because they define White Mages. While Cures from your Conjurer are cross class.



Just more ideas.

So basically, you would be, say, a WHM level 1 on top of a CON level 30 and you level both at the same time, if I understand well. That sounds good.

Sounds kind of similar to the job/subjob system from XI where whatever the job you add to your basic class you get a bonus, but you get better bonuses with specific combination.

I think that the system proposed here, however, provides more flexibility and customization than the subjob system.
Also, it would be nice to level both your class and job at the same time instead of dropping everything and taking a level 1 job to 37 just because you need it as a sub but don't really want to play it as a main.

[Cairdeas]

So basically, you would be, say, a WHM level 1 on top of a CON level 30 and you level both at the same time, if I understand well. That sounds good.

Sounds kind of similar to the job/subjob system from XI where whatever the job you add to your basic class you get a bonus, but you get better bonuses with specific combination.

I think that the system proposed here, however, provides more flexibility and customization than the subjob system.
Also, it would be nice to level both your class and job at the same time instead of dropping everything and taking a level 1 job to 37 just because you need it as a sub but don't really want to play it as a main.

You would be leveling both at the same time if you were performing tasks that granted you that Job Points or Skill Points. As they would be mutually exclusive.

Also jobs would not need to go to 50. 10 could easily be the cap and once you got certain ones to 5 and then 10 you unlocked extra ones.

Also unlike the Job/Subjob system your Job and Class are on the same playing field, you don't get your power cut in half because one is to low. IE just because your Job level is too low your class isn't cut in half like it was in XI.

[northernsky]

You would be leveling both at the same time if you were performing tasks that granted you that Job Points or Skill Points. As they would be mutually exclusive.

Also jobs would not need to go to 50. 10 could easily be the cap and once you got certain ones to 5 and then 10 you unlocked extra ones.

Also unlike the Job/Subjob system your Job and Class are on the same playing field, you don't get your power cut in half because one is to low. IE just because your Job level is too low your class isn't cut in half like it was in XI.

Yeah I like that.
Like I said earlier there could a combination of grinding and questing to rank up your job, a little bit like the Maat quests from XI that allowed you to level an extra 5 but you needed to grind exp in between quests.

I'm not sure about them being mutually exclusive. Maybe it could work like exp vs merit points, or just be ranked up by doing completely different things, but I think I would like to be able to rank both of them up at the same time.

But at this point its just mechanistic the general idea is here.

If a system similar to that is implemented, I know it would be enough for me to play quite a bit regardless of quests or missions just because there would be so much goal oriented leveling.