Using 3rd party tools to call out Box Spawns / Enemy Buffs / DR considered cheating?

[Cleanse]

For Adren and attack buffs, having a built in 'timer' would be nice. Something like the rings where they spawn being a clock or runes that fill up over time.

ATM it requires people to guesstimate by having trial and error tested the timing.

e. and I say this because with chat being unavailable during a match soon... there needs to be better visual cues in game. We can't say 'Attack Buffs at 4:00' or 'Adren coming at X:XX' after someone has taken the current.

[SuperZay]

Are you just arguing to prove a point, or do you actually believe that? Verbal communication is an essential part of human interaction. Having a program give you a play-by-play of what your opponent is doing and when objectives need to be taken is totally different.

*rollseyes*
People will always find a way to cheese their way to victory and defend it, even if it doesn't directly break ToS. How about to play fair with only tools that the game gives you, like party chat. Oh wait, it'll probably lead to lose, so they need external program voice chat to win. But how, exactly, is it fair match VS a team who don't use voice communication?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It's entirely possible to still miss something even being coordinated through the use of voice chat within a team. If a program is telling you the things you would normally have to maintain an active awareness of, and right as they happen, THAT is cheating.

[Yukumazi]

*rollseyes*
People will always find a way to cheese their way to victory and defend it, even if it doesn't directly break ToS. How about to play fair with only tools that the game gives you, like party chat. Oh wait, it'll probably lead to lose, so they need external program voice chat to win. But how, exactly, is it fair match VS a team who don't use voice communication?

Because if you actually played PvP. you would understand that a team using voice communication can still LOSE.
Voice chat is purely a option. it's nothing enforced, and not something you have to do. you can still win without it and you can still lose with it. because in the end, your skill within the game is a major factor aswell.

At this point, you are just trying to find small cracks within the topic to argue about.

[natyusha]

Because if you actually played PvP. you would understand that a team using triggers can still LOSE.
Triggers are purely a option. it's nothing enforced, and not something you have to do. you can still win without it and you can still lose with it. because in the end, your skill within the game is a major factor aswell.


Too tempting of a set up to pass up but ya I've never seen anyone complain about external voip before in any game.

[TiramisuMacaron]

Can lose with speed hacks too, still gives you an advantage that breaks ToS that most honest players aren't taking. There is 0 difference between using call-outs in PvP and speedhacks. You might as well speedhack too if you think call-outs are fair.

It is a ToS question, not a question of what is built into the game or not. Streaming isn't built into the game either, god forbid we do that and improve by watching our prior matches.

[natyusha]

Injecting foreign code into the game's memory to move faster than normal limits isn't even remotely close to the same thing as parsing combat data. A more realistic comparison would be the difference between theft and piracy.

[TiramisuMacaron]

They both land you about 5 years in prison in the US. Just because one isn't as easily trackable, doesn't mean it isn't breaking the law. Trying to justify breaking rules is disgusting and unsportsmanlike.

[Bartleby]

From http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...03#post3696803

Recently there has been some debate regarding the use of certain third-party tools during PvP matches. These tools have been used to view detailed information about opponents, generate audio notifications when certain actions are triggered, and provide other data in windows separate from those of the FFXIV UI. The development team is well aware of this situation and is currently weighing various options.

As prohibiting the use of third-party tools can lead some to confusion (”Are chat programs prohibited?” “What falls within the definition of “third-party tool?”), I should state that our policy is to not place excessive restrictions on our players; we simply do not want you to use devices or software which are in violation of the terms of service.

However, we do not condone the use of tools which provide an advantage in PvP by obtaining information, such as player position and buff/debuff status, by parsing packet data and utilizing it in the manner described above. Therefore, to discourage the use of such tools, we are considering using a different encryption protocol for PvP packets.

I don't even know how you can argue at this point. The fact that you've also used dishonest methods to climb/cheat the party leaderboards for 2 seasons now pretty much lays out exactly the sort of player you are and why you're using these tools.

[natyusha]

I'm not trying to justify anything nor am I endorsing the use of third party tools. I simply find it hilarious how someone can think that actual hacking has "0 difference" from using callouts. Why do you think that I would use a theft vs piracy argument? Both are clearly distinct concepts while also being wholly illegal.

Parsing via network (packet) data and memory is a clear example of parsers infringing on the "law" but Yoship and the TOS both fail to mention anything about the ingame battle log which is why anyone who wants to convince themselves that gathering data from said log is acceptable will continue to do so.

One thing I would like to see is the inclusion of numerical HP values for players on the enemy team / enemy mobs. I would also advise anybody who does not like the use of callouts in pvp to turn of their HP overlays while pvping to avoid a possible advantage.