Wanderers Minuet fail

[Leigaon]

hmm... there are still instant cast procs on several skills + the fact that crit/sks is best for brd your cast time will strongly decrease with max level and decent gear...

I tried bard, I was one mainly in 1.0 with being a WHM so I wanted to get the new story and try it out. The instant cast procs made it fun but I quickly got annoyed when I would have bloodletter reset twice while I was busy firing another WS due to the cast times. Personally like the story, and enjoyed what the new damage skills gave

I may go back to it, I never tried to focus on sks, but I did notice when an AST gave me a little buff my world changed for a few seconds and it wasn't so bad.

So i have abandoned my bard. I loved her. The mobility, the insta casts, the songs....

The mobility part I never really got. Even before 52, I didn't go running and jumping around. I found myself stationary a lot. Maybe this is in savage content? That I don't do. The instant casts though I did get annoyed with like I said, maybe if they allowed it to be used within the casting. Healing though I got to say it was nice not having a bard jump around all the time getting hit by things just to jump out of my range...that's a personal thing though.

Songs is another thing, we have TP recovery in a game that doesn't require it for about 80% of the content, same with MP. Sure there's some situations a mage that needs to raise a bunch, a overpower happy warrior or an aoe spamming dps. Otherwise, I liked Warden's, though I never used it except on a warriors berserk.

Maybe there's an even ground here? I get the use for WM, you sing a song to enhance your arrow, you stand and steady your aim. Though as an archer we should be skilled enough to walk and shoot. I've ran into a dead end..what could be done to make it so that when you stand still you sing your song / steady your aim and do extra damage but if you decide to move around a bunch you loose the dmg boost but gain the mobility. Yes, you'd have to take the DPS loss for moving and accept that but you can toggle as you go along. If not, that's as bad as those mages who ask for Cleric to go away, base it all on MND and want us to keep the dmg boost. Get something you need to have something else taken away.

[Lelila38]

The mobility part I never really got. Even before 52, I didn't go running and jumping around. I found myself stationary a lot. Maybe this is in savage content? That I don't do.

It's not as much about being stationary as it is about cooldown management. Before lv52 Brd is a very fast played class, it is able to use his skills instantly, freeing up time to pop up to 3 non-global-cooldowns between them, which used to be what the real good Brds did to maximise their dps. Now with WM, you are barely able to fit in 1 non-GCD between skills. This results in a very clunky feeling on lv52+ Brd. Mch seem to have it a bit better since they were designed with that playstyle in mind from the start, whereas for Brd it feels like they just went and slapped Mch ideas onto them to make those 2 classes use the same playstyle.

Songs is another thing, we have TP recovery in a game that doesn't require it for about 80% of the content, same with MP. Sure there's some situations a mage that needs to raise a bunch, a overpower happy warrior or an aoe spamming dps.

In savage content you won't find a lot of groups without Brd/Mch, precisely because of those skills. Especially during progression, while healers don't have a measure of the amount of heals needed yet, the MP recovery can be very helpful to get past some tight spots and see more of the fight. Additionally, Brd's Foe Requiem and Mch's turrets are a huge dps boost and should be used whenever possible.
Outside of savage raiding, I agree, you don't need MP/TP recovery very often, still it's a nice thing to have some utility for group content.

[Tsilyi]

pop up to 3 non-global-cooldowns between them

doesn't that clip the gcd slightly? still a dps gain in some situations?

[rakali]

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I was strongly considering maining a bard until I learned that Wanderer's Minuet existed.

I understand if some people want a ranged support with cast times. I don't understand why both bard and machinist need to mimic each other. Why not give only one of the two the cast time stance and give players a choice in playstyle?

[Avenfell]

Its always funny reading the replies on this topic, they are basically all; "well at first I hated WM, more then anything, was the worst thing ever made, but eventually I got used to it".......
Ok so that's the defense?! By that logic its the same as; "well I really liked using my right hand but it was chopped off by a bloodthirsty marauder, so now I use my left hand to eat and wipe"
That does not mean its optimal to use your left hand, WM and Enochian SUCK, stop perma-white knighting for Yoshi 24/7.

[Chevronone]

The worst part about bard is watching the Bloodletter procs and it spinning like crazy and you're stuck in a cast...

[ShaneDawn]

Its always funny reading the replies on this topic, they are basically all; "well at first I hated WM, more then anything, was the worst thing ever made, but eventually I got used to it".......
Ok so that's the defense?! By that logic its the same as; "well I really liked using my right hand but it was chopped off by a bloodthirsty marauder, so now I use my left hand to eat and wipe"
That does not mean its optimal to use your left hand, WM and Enochian SUCK, stop perma-white knighting for Yoshi 24/7.

Don't like something initially->try a new thing out->like it after all->OMG WHITE KNIGHT!!!

I agree, that the change was too sudden, but I disagree with the change being an entirely bad thing. 2.x Bard had end-game problems that needed addressing to, one way or another. That solution, albeit not the best one, turned out to be Minuet.

[rakali]

Bard had end-game problems that needed addressing to, one way or another. That solution, albeit not the best one, turned out to be Minuet.

What was the problem, though? Too much mobility? I wasn't around in 2.x, so I'm genuinely asking, because I don't understand how mobility on a character that already does less damage than the others (because it's a support dps) could be considered an end--game problem.

[ShaneDawn]

What was the problem, though? Too much mobility? I wasn't around in 2.x, so I'm genuinely asking, because I don't understand how mobility on a character that already does less damage than the others (because it's a support dps) could be considered an end--game problem.

The thing is, a good Bard with a Dragoon (Disembowel improves direct DPS by 10%) used to be a very potent damage dealer, in addition to what used to be unsurpassed mobility. The old Bard had the highest activity percentile out of all classes due to being able to DPS everywhere and anywhere, even whilst dealing with crucial mechanics. The ability to DPS under almost any situation by itself closed gap against more potent DPS classes by itself as well. All in all, Bard did just too much: you could trivialize mechanics while losing hardly anything.

As for "support DPS": I would suggest all Bards try to deviate from this line of thinking. While we have quite potent support abilities, generally MP/TP songs that cripple you will be sang during downtime periods, so most of the time the damage penalty is not really prevalent. All in all, the only times when the damage penalty applies is a.) During early progression or a long fight with no down-time b.) Someone fucks up c.) Inefficient use of songs. Bard has never been a Monk, but we were and still are very potent damage dealers, paired with Dragoons.

Bards could've been addressed in other manners than with Minuet, but that's what we got. I'm not telling everyone to be happy about it, but it's also not as much doom-and-gloom as many people make it out to be. As mentioned earlier, we still have strong mobility with short casts, Feint, Straighter Shot procs, Stance-Dancing and Repelling Shot. Maintaining the same activity% as before requires more work, and it's not as simple to trivialize mechanics, but it's still largely possible with good, coordinated plays. Bard is still really good, and the composition regarded as the "best" (relative to the context, but this one as largerly regarded as the overall best) atm is NIN/DRG/MCH/BRD, which has 2 supposed "support dps" in it. It is just not as trivial to either damage or deal mechanics with it compared to 2.x.

I beat all the Coils in 2.x, as well as clearing the latest Savage Raiding tier on my Bard. I have a lot of personal experience on the class both pre- and post-changes, for what it's worth.