Possible level/story jumps....really?

[Nominous]

I really hope Yoshi does not follow through with this idea (the level skipping I mean) - I can sort of understand the 'no story requirement to access the next expansion area' though and respect that, even though personally I would much prefer it to be restricted again to storyline completion, but I'm probably in the minority here, as I feel this would contradict SE's statements in the past about this game being not 'pay to win' and content based. But I digress...

This is the only way they can reach potential subscribers outside of our current ecosystem, that's all there is to it. They'd be alienating (and overwhelming) almost everyone else if they don't do this. From the sub side (us) the pros could never outweigh the cons. Think of those on the outside looking in though, where you might as well slap a sticker on the Stormblood box for them that says, "Requires 100+ hours to access Stormblood content!"

I welcome it, it just needs done right.

-Require Level Jumpers to be put in Novice Network, thoroughly explaining what the Novice Network is before they jump in the game.
-Have an FC request function when they start the game. (Something like a party invite that says, "Would you like to join X Free Company? Free Companies are a group of players that will help you on your adventures! You also get bonuses for playing while in an FC!) (Only for FC's that request they be put in the request system)
-Require Level Jumpers to complete Hall of the Novice, and Hall of the Intermediate (if they decide on doing that like they said), before they can do ANY duty finder content.

That's just my 2 cents, though.

[Jandor]

This is the only way they can reach potential subscribers outside of our current ecosystem, that's all there is to it. They'd be alienating (and overwhelming) almost everyone else if they don't do this. From the sub side (us) the pros could never outweigh the cons. Think of those on the outside looking in though, where you might as well slap a sticker on the Stormblood box for them that says, "Requires 100+ hours to access Stormblood content!"

Yeah, but on the flip side of that, who the hell is buying RPGs and not expecting to have to start at level 1?

WoW jump potions are used as an example, but I can't be the only one who thinks that those were more to entice old players back rather than draw new ones in?
At this stage in this games life, selling level boosts comes across more as charging for cheat codes than an honest attempt to help new players. Especially when other options exist.

[Nominous]

Yeah, but on the flip side of that, who the hell is buying RPGs and not expecting to have to start at level 1?

Nobody. It's not about the level they expect to start at, but the content they want access to. It just so happens that those two things are tied together, meaning you need a level jump in order to access the new content.

It's really simple- Nobody wants to buy a new game to play old content. No matter how you want to explain the concept and break it down, that remains the core. Similarly, no matter how you break it down, the only group that benefits from the lack of Jump Potions, is going to be the current subscribers. We should be considered, sure. But I'd rather everyone's friends (new and returning players) be included in the expansion fun than protect my own interests, pride, and such.

There should certainly be some requirements for using the jump potion, in the form of tutorials. But I think that's enough.

[Greedalox]

Nobody. It's not about the level they expect to start at, but the content they want access to. It just so happens that those two things are tied together, meaning you need a level jump in order to access the new content.

It's really simple- Nobody wants to buy a new game to play old content. No matter how you want to explain the concept and break it down, that remains the core. Similarly, no matter how you break it down, the only group that benefits from the lack of Jump Potions, is going to be the current subscribers. We should be considered, sure. But I'd rather everyone's friends (new and returning players) be included in the expansion fun than protect my own interests, pride, and such.

There should certainly be some requirements for using the jump potion, in the form of tutorials. But I think that's enough.

I whole heartedly disagree, at least speaking for myself the initial leveling process in an MMO is a lot of the allure. Watching my growth into a character capable of max level content is exciting.

[Naunet]

I whole heartedly disagree, at least speaking for myself the initial leveling process in an MMO is a lot of the allure. Watching my growth into a character capable of max level content is exciting.

Same. The things that keeps me in a game the longest are 1) roleplay and 2) the ability to make unique characters and level them in a way that's fun. Hence my frustration with the ARR MSQ wall. >_<

[Nominous]

I whole heartedly disagree, at least speaking for myself the initial leveling process in an MMO is a lot of the allure. Watching my growth into a character capable of max level content is exciting.

I probably shouldn't have spoken in such absolute terms, because I play any MMO for the same reason as you just said. But I feel like it's more socially responsible to think of the new player who doesn't share the same sentiments, or maybe doesn't have that kind of time on their hands. Especially the case when we're talking potential optional features that people could just... well, opt out of, if they feel how we do about MMOs. It doesn't hurt anyone by at least having an option.

[Lexia]

It's really simple- Nobody wants to buy a new game to play old content. No matter how you want to explain the concept and break it down, that remains the core. Similarly, no matter how you break it down, the only group that benefits from the lack of Jump Potions, is going to be the current subscribers. We should be considered, sure. But I'd rather everyone's friends (new and returning players) be included in the expansion fun than protect my own interests, pride, and such

Except expansions are not a new game they are just expanding a already existing game, now if the game been out for 10 years and has like 5 expansions but XIV only been our for 3 years with barely any information known about 3rd expansion.

[Nominous]

Except expansions are not a new game they are just expanding a already existing game, now if the game been out for 10 years and has like 5 expansions but XIV only been our for 3 years with barely any information known about 3rd expansion.

Yes, I'm aware of what an expansion is. Joe Schmoe that saw a sick trailer for FFXIV Stormblood might not, though. When they go into the store, brought in by specific Stormblood marketing/content, and they see a new copy of Stormblood, they (likely) want to play what they saw in the trailer/marketing. What they see on the back of the box after browsing around. What their friends are telling them about, or they see on streams.

If the store associate is knowledgeable like me, they tell them that they will need to buy 2 other FFXIV expansions first. They'll also tell them that (if things stay as they are) they'll need to go through those 2 games to get to that content they saw in the trailer, and requires 15 dollars a month, and that person's already 4 feet out of the door by that point. At least in my experience, where people occasionally laugh when I say that it's 40 extra dollars to access every piece of content on top of their 50-60 dollar purchase. That's not even considering the time investment.

Now maybe I spoke in absolutes a bit much. Not everyone is bothered by that, and some even welcome hundreds of hours to get to new content. And this certainly doesn't factor in the piece of the pie that involves returning players, who also (likely) don't care about the grind so much. But I do believe that if they implement this, their reasoning probably involves getting new players to relevant, non-vacant content as quick as possible.

And even still, there's no good reason to deny new/returning players the option for a Jump Potion. That is, unless you're of the opinion that leveling is some rite of passage that you don't want others to bypass because somehow it hurts your experience.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Except expansions are not a new game they are just expanding a already existing game, now if the game been out for 10 years and has like 5 expansions but XIV only been our for 3 years with barely any information known about 3rd expansion.

Why put off the inevitable? You don't wait until population numbers are dwindling to think perhaps the initial quest bloat leading up to your expansion may be a vote of contention for people, especially when games make the vast majority of their sales in the first few weeks. To give an example. BDO is currently advertising Dark Knight being added. Now it's certainly piqued my interest. If I were expected to play through several hours of old content I may not even care for, I'll more than likely put the game down long before ever trying out Dark Knight. It doesn't matter whether Stormblood is a new game or not. People will treat it like one. And without a skip of some variety, they'll opt for a game far lessing demanding before they can experience what they deem fun.

IIRC they haven't said going forward is impossible. They said going backwards isn't possible without resetting things you've unlocked, which is why we haven't got new game +, and part of the reason the team isn't set on going ahead with these potions.
Going forward must be possible otherwise we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Going forward still necessitates adding conflicting code which will trigger every flag in the game. It isn't quite as simple as just tossing in some lines of dialogue and calling it a day. We're only having this conversation because some people are adamantly against a jump potion. The devs are weighing in either implementing it or leaving things as they stand. They aren't considering an in-game quest skip.

From a business perspective, it makes sense to avoid controversy. This is obviously controversial, we've had multiple 50+ page threads on it now.

As for bots, SWTOR was cited earlier as doing something similar, if a F2P game from EA can handle bots and manage to offer customers a choice without charging them extra then I expect SE can as well.

People complaining on forums is a poor representation of your audience. We make up maybe 1%. The vast majority aren't going to care or even notice a skip potion being put on the mogstation. Case in point, people lost their collective minds when a cash shop was announced. Flash forward two years later and it's been among the most profitable aspects of FFXIV.

Since I don't know SWTOR's system well enough to comment, I'll leave it be.

[Jandor]

If the store associate is knowledgeable like me, they tell them that they will need to buy 2 other FFXIV expansions first. They'll also tell them that (if things stay as they are) they'll need to go through those 2 games to get to that content they saw in the trailer, and requires 15 dollars a month, and that person's already 4 feet out of the door by that point. At least in my experience, where people occasionally laugh when I say that it's 40 extra dollars to access every piece of content on top of their 50-60 dollar purchase. That's not even considering the time investment.

How hard do they laugh when you tell them on top of that 100 dollar purchase they'll need to pay even more dollars to basically delete part of that purchase?

And even still, there's no good reason to deny new/returning players the option for a Jump Potion. That is, unless you're of the opinion that leveling is some rite of passage that you don't want others to bypass because somehow it hurts your experience.

A lot of people are denying it should be paid for. If it really is a problem, the solution should be part of the game, not an expensive extra.

The devs are weighing in either implementing it or leaving things as they stand. They aren't considering an in-game quest skip.

That a fact? I think they are at least considering it.

"Of course this isn’t so we can make money off players wanting to skip the content"

"Whether or not to actually implement that or offer it as a purchasable option still hasn’t been decided."

http://gamerescape.com/2016/06/17/e3...naoki-yoshida/

Doesn't read like they have decided whether to do it or not, or that they have decided if it should be purchasable if they do. If it's implemented and not purchasable that only really leaves in-game.