Have we moved to an age where taking hate as a dps = bad dps instead of bad tank?

[Johaandr]

I use quelling strike and when it run off my emnity takes me to nr2 spot somehow.

[Johaandr]

So TANKS JOB IS TO TAKE AGGRO.
Its like telling healers NOT to dps.
!! Nobody seems to agree at anything at all !!

[SmallHobbit]

I was in A12 as BLM and I was about to take hate off the DRK tanking without grit. So I said "put tank stance on pls". Then the party jumped on me saying "you use quelling strikes".
Then a similar thing happened when I was in a dungeon, a ninja took hate off the PLD (again who was in sword oath), and died, he complained at the tank to keep hate and got berated for not learning to use shadewalker.

THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN TO A WAR because he is aggro king in dps stance!

DRK has the worst aggro managemant without grit and PLD is just something between the other.

but yeah i can understand that in a savage raids you wanna max dps output where you can expect for the group use quelling strikes and ninja buffs but out of savage, tanks has prio... of aggro -> max. dps, same as for healers first healing than dps.
usally even tank in dps stance can get allways aggro back just by doing a aggro combo but usally this is not the max dps rotation thats why tanks mostly dont wanna do it.

anyway just try to do your job good and use quellingstrikes and dont care what tanks say a DRG/MONK dont have any of this skills anyway.

regards hobbit

[Shurrikhan]

But how else are we suppose to watch the headless chickens run away from us when they rip aggro... that is the highlight of my run as tank, people who somehow by some miracle rip aggro off me as tank and run AWAY from me expecting that will save them.

I just pop defensives and swap in when I take aggro, even move the boss as it usually would be if necessary. But then again, that's on Monk, where I don't really have any other means of recourse left. Or on Bard, after having used Quelling Strikes with every Raging Strikes burn period, and having already started a slightly early Ballad... In the meanwhile though, I often have a NIN sitting there seemingly without Smoke Screen on his hotbars. (Obviously not as kind a NIN as ReplicaX.)

(Btw, I too use Shadewalker within the opener itself to maximize its enmity transfer, especially in casual content where the potion oGCD isn't going to be used. Not sure why some tanks will freak out about getting more out of it, especially as its after the Tomahawk and first combo that they would otherwise start losing threat normally.)

[Gumbercules]

Well idk about others, but if i pull hate on a tank in a dungeon, and my QS is still on CD, I tend to take that as my bad :P That being said there are alot of tanks that don't use proper openers to give them that edge in aggro so they can coaster the rest of the fight dps ing so imo hate is everyone's responsibility in ff 14.

[Yeol]

hate is everyone's responsibility in ff 14.

Agree.

Tanks have weapon skills to increase enmity, healers and dps have abilities to reduce it. Everyone is involved, everyone is responsible.

[Arcflare]

I often find it funny how lazy people can be in pugs. Tbh Tank's and DPS are supposed to have this mutual relationship where its "Im a good dps, i challenge you to hold hate off me" and "Im a good tank, i challenge you to rip hate off me." This how the relationships were in FFXI and tbh should stand to be true here. If a DPS rips hate and dies maybe the tank didnt try hard enough to keep hate, and if the dps cant get hate then hes free to wail on the target all he wants. I find it more fun to challenge a tank to test if they really know their job because i know when im with my friends its almost impossible for me to pull hate off them.

[Lambdafish]

I'll just post what I posted in the Healer DPS thread, forgive the lack of context, but a lot of the info crosses over into tank dps as well.

The thread is asking "As a healer, what am I supposed to be doing?" and the answer to that is "whatever is the most important responsibility on each GCD", which is a responsibility shared across all roles (yes tanks sometimes heal, DPS sometimes manage enmity, and all three deal damage). Is everyone at full health? Then you should be DPSing, overhealing and idling helps nobody, just like as a tank I can ask myself "Do I have a sufficient lead in enmity?" if the answer is yes then I should be using my DPS rotations.

While you may be ok with the "letting people play how they want" mentality, all it does is excuse lazy play in group content, which drives player complacency up and overall skill level down. Then what happens is people cry on the forums when content actually gets hard (Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith, Weeping City, all content that isn't that hard). This is a bigger issue than healer DPS though, and feeds into overall game difficulty and skill gaps throughout different content in the game, which is a hotly debated topic that people should be far more open minded and invested in.

[Ilan]

I often find it funny how lazy people can be in pugs. Tbh Tank's and DPS are supposed to have this mutual relationship where its "Im a good dps, i challenge you to hold hate off me" and "Im a good tank, i challenge you to rip hate off me." This how the relationships were in FFXI and tbh should stand to be true here. If a DPS rips hate and dies maybe the tank didnt try hard enough to keep hate, and if the dps cant get hate then hes free to wail on the target all he wants. I find it more fun to challenge a tank to test if they really know their job because i know when im with my friends its almost impossible for me to pull hate off them.

If a dps uses ALL of his skills which includes the hate reducing skills and the tank loses hate, its the tanks fault and he didn't pay enough attention. These skills don't decrease the damage of a dps but it allows the tank to deal more dps because he can drop the tank stance. So if the dps and tanks not their jobs, both can deal higher dps since no one trys to grow his little Epeen and makes the tank spam his hate rotation like a fool.

[MPNZ]

Speaking from mostly the opposite perspective it does fall to the Tank to make sure they are keeping up on the enmity combo's, that being said there is a heavy stance within the tanking forums that you shouldn't be in tank stance if you can avoid it to do more DPS (at least as a warrior this seems to be the trend).

Ew, it really drives me nuts whenever I see tanks not using their stances during dungeons, which is something I rarely see. But, almost everything since 3.0 has been seriously messy.