As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[LadyAveria]

Just skipped over my main point didn't ya?

[Cynfael]

The way I see it is healers are there to heal >.> if they can DPS as well, great! If they can't, that is okay! It is quite annoying to hear people expecting something from a class whose purpose is to keep people from dying lol I am grateful when a healer can DPS but I don't scold them or form a mob after them because they don't DPS, some people just can't handle doing two jobs in a raid or dungeon! If they are comfortable just healing and are enjoying the game, everyone can just go away XD Why don't DPS classes tank? Why don't tanks heal? It is pointless...just let someone play the way they are comfortable with. So basically to anyone that is sitting there high and mighty, leave healers alone that don't DPS >.> maybe they can't handle it and want to enjoy the game...and before you come back with "Well they shouldn't heal." How about you stop trying to be Square or Lord of Final Fantasy lol


And by the way, I DPS as a healer, I am comfortable doing it! ^+^

To recap an earlier point, there is a fine distinction between healers who don't DPS and healers who are idle.

- Healers who don't DPS sometimes just aren't very good (yet). They don't know how to play well and/or don't know the fight, so their lack of DPS contribution is not because of entitlement or laziness if that's the case. Benefit of the doubt.
- Healers who are just plain idle know the fights and have gaping windows in which they could be doing something, but they stand around waiting for (usually) the tank to take damage. These are the healers who get carried by their parties and who are well regarded by no one.

As for other roles...

- DPS classes generally don't tank because, aside from being squishy, they don't have reliable enmity control and cannot use their full kits while under direct attack. It's bad for the party.
- Tank classes generally don't heal because, as with DPS classes, their ability to heal other party members is miniscule, and there is no bonus for healing beyond what the healer brings. The GCDs are better spent on other actions. It's bad for the party.

Healers generally should and do contribute DPS because more damage is almost always helpful and they don't need all of their GCDs for healing actions. It's good for the party.

The point I'm getting at is that the argument about why other roles don't do X or Y is not a good one. Healers have been given the tools to perform a wide variety of useful actions; their damage skills are not somehow separate from their job.

[Ghishlain]

The point I'm getting at is that the argument about why other roles don't do X or Y is not a good one. Healers have been given the tools to perform a wide variety of useful actions; their damage skills are not somehow separate from their job.

I'm just contributing here to re-emphasize on this point. Anyone who brings up the argument of "Well, BLMs aren't expected to Physick" or "DRGs aren't expected to tank" don't seem to realize that these roles are ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE at doing that. It's possible, yes, and sometimes you need to have that niche to clear a piece of content if the crap hits the fan but their performance in that aspect is so below average performance of that role that it's not even funny.

In contrast, Cleric Stance gives Healer's DPS stats that rival their caster counterparts of the same ilvl, allowing them to effectively DPS.

Keyword - effective

BLMs and SMNs can heal. It's ineffective because they don't have the MND stats to support their healing.
DRGs can tank. It's ineffective because they lack the enmity tools to try to hold hate on a DPS with equal ilvl and you end up with a bouncing hate table.
Etc.
Etc.

[Lambdafish]

Just skipped over my main point didn't ya?

I didn't, and sorry if my response was a little condescending. This thread is not a question about inexperienced healers though, naturally inexperienced healers will perform their job wrong/inefficiently and may need people to slow down a little so they can learn. The thread is asking "As a healer, what am I supposed to be doing?" and the answer to that is "whatever is the most important responsibility on each GCD", which is a responsibility shared across all roles (yes tanks sometimes heal, DPS sometimes manage enmity, and all three deal damage). Is everyone at full health? Then you should be DPSing, overhealing and idling helps nobody, just like as a tank I can ask myself "Do I have a sufficient lead in enmity?" if the answer is yes then I should be using my DPS rotations.

While you may be ok with the "letting people play how they want" mentality, all it does is excuse lazy play in group content, which drives player complacency up and overall skill level down. Then what happens is people cry on the forums when content actually gets hard (Pharos Sirius, Steps of Faith, Weeping City, all content that isn't that hard). This is a bigger issue than healer DPS though, and feeds into overall game difficulty and skill gaps throughout different content in the game, which is a hotly debated topic that people should be far more open minded and invested in.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I'm just contributing here to re-emphasize on this point. Anyone who brings up the argument of "Well, BLMs aren't expected to Physick" or "DRGs aren't expected to tank" don't seem to realize that these roles are ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE at doing that. It's possible, yes, and sometimes you need to have that niche to clear a piece of content if the crap hits the fan but their performance in that aspect is so below average performance of that role that it's not even funny.

In contrast, Cleric Stance gives Healer's DPS stats that rival their caster counterparts of the same ilvl, allowing them to effectively DPS.

Keyword - effective

BLMs and SMNs can heal. It's ineffective because they don't have the MND stats to support their healing.
DRGs can tank. It's ineffective because they lack the enmity tools to try to hold hate on a DPS with equal ilvl and you end up with a bouncing hate table.
Etc.
Etc.

Just to further emphasise this. I actually tanked Saint Mocianne's Arboretum from near start to finish-- trash and bosses alike -- on Dragoon because I outgeared the Paladin so much, he couldn't keep hate. And believe me, he tried. While it was certainly fun, my DPS hit the floor since I couldn't get positionals and had to prioritize holding Life Surge just in case I needed snap healing. Not to mention, the White Mage had to focus heal me to some extent. All in all, it's a massive party wide DPS loss despite being perfectly doable. As already noted, healers don't have this issue when DPSing. They can freely do both, which benefits the whole party.

[DynamoAce]

snip

It's always fun when you tank while not being a tank.
I've had a lot of instances where for multiple different reasons, I become a healer tank. At first it scared me and almost made me wanna cry (Not literally!) but after a while it became moments of "Oh yeah? You wanna ****ing go?"
Although whenever that happens and it's because the Tank is literally there, able to do tank things but chooses not to, makes me really wonder.

[VanilleFang]

Here's an example of a healer who wasn't inexperienced or anything, they were just lazy.

Dropped into Tam Tara NM with a synced 60 SCH who did nothing unless the tank drop so low that a single Embrace wouldn't bring them to 100%.

I saw them do absolutely nothing for the entirety of the first mini-boss, so I asked them "Could you please help DPS?" Their response? They left the instance.

This is the kind of thing everyone who is pro-dps in this thread is referring to when they talk about "healers who don't deal damage". If you're new or whatever, fine. But if you're a Level 60 SCH who wants to be idle for almost 60 seconds, think again.

[Cynfael]

Here's an example of a healer who wasn't inexperienced or anything, they were just lazy.

Dropped into Tam Tara NM with a synced 60 SCH who did nothing unless the tank drop so low that a single Embrace wouldn't bring them to 100%.

I saw them do absolutely nothing for the entirety of the first mini-boss, so I asked them "Could you please help DPS?" Their response? They left the instance.

This is the kind of thing everyone who is pro-dps in this thread is referring to when they talk about "healers who don't deal damage". If you're new or whatever, fine. But if you're a Level 60 SCH who wants to be idle for almost 60 seconds, think again.

I had a similar experience in PotD leveling my DRK with two White Mages and a Thaumaturge (that's right, no job crystal). One WHM followed around and did basically nothing, but I was busy tanking and didn't notice much at first since things were going smoothly enough.

Then we hit a floor with the debuff that seals your abilities, and someone had wasted the Serenity pomanders on inconsequential things, so we ran around with the active WHM (who had been both healing and attacking) stuck in CS and the other WHM stuck out of it. At one point we hit a Lure trap, and the CS WHM was reduced to trying to heal me through CS because the other WHM was standing there doing nothing at all. Finally the mannequin woke up and started spamming Medica (yeah don't ask why) when I was out of CDs and nearly dead. Explained that his buddy was watching an interesting movie that distracted him. For about a full minute, apparently, and while on a floor where his cohealer was obviously unable to leave CS.

...while I think most players will agree that this behavior is idiotic, it seems to me that Healer is the only role that consistently thinks it can get away with putting the party on the backburner. Sure, it's just a game, but if you're going to play it with other people, exercise some common sense and common courtesy.

[VanilleFang]

backburner.

Oh God. I don't want this thread to turn into "story time w/ bad healers" but I have another story (also from yesterday), that may contradict my "if you're new it's okay to suck" Stance.

So, Leveling my DRG (I like DRG but it's slowly becoming a living hell) and get dropped into Haukke NM with my brother, who was very unleveled (28), and only a MRD. Whatevers it should be fine since our DPS is great (DRG and NIN). The healer was a level 29 CNJ.

Healer did fine until the room that you have to unlock the door to get to the connecting room. My brother was slowly dying, because they weren't getting any heals. CNJ runs on and heals the tank and says "don't worry if you almost die. I will heal you and wait for me". Okay...

Right before the first boss I noticed something even worse. They were healing in Cleric Stance. It's not like they forgot to turn it off, because they never used a dps spell. I asked them "please turn Cleric Stance off. You're only healing for 150". They said nothing.

Tank dies in the basement and we both ask them again to stop healing in Cleric Stance. I even asked them if they knew what Cleric Stance was. Still no reply. Ugh... I at this point was fed up and started using shrug and facepalm emotes to try and catch their attention (I only used both like twice).

Both me and my brother die on the final boss because the healer did nothing for a good 45 seconds (I forgot to mention that they occasionally went afk). We return, expecting a wipe. But the boss was almost dead and the healer decided to start healing the NIN so the boss went down. The reason we died? "Srry i fell asleep". Wtf.

[Rawrz]

Bad healer ;_;

Bad players will be bad. Just like Drgs that dont heavy thrust, wars that don't maim, smns that dont dot, nins that don't trick, bards that don't foes... The list is endless. Cleric Stance is a very solid and very simple skill. We need to stop handing out participation trophies in the form of gameplay. :C