Tomes vs random drops

[Khalithar]

I'd rather have both. Using current content as an example, put the 260 gear in dungeons and have the same drops available for tomestones as "RNG insurance."

[Shirai]

Something can be said for either, both are ways to keep content alive to some extent and one should not cancel the other option, in my opinion.

Personally I am a fan of the Tomestone farming, I still consider myself a pretty casual player who's more into gathering, crafting and mainly doing the story content.
With Tomestones I'm assured to at least stay around or above the content level while being able to mainly do the things I enjoy doing the most in this game.
The random drop system is perfect for those that enjoy and have enough time to run that content.

[Kaurie]

Sure worked out really well for Diadem.

In my opinion, it's less about what the system is and more about how well it is implemented.

As it stands, I will take the boring daily tome grind over boring dungeon run any days.

The gear in Diadem was the only draw, that chance that you could have insanely good stats etc. was all that kept people going. What didn't work out for Diadem was Diadem.

Random drops are a terrible idea. Hey, why don't we lock content behind luck? Why don't we encourage people to treat the game like a job to "fairly" distribute drops?

I suspect all the positivity in this thread is survivorship bias, with perhaps a dash of masochism. If you actually get the drops you want, they're great, and if you don't, you probably stopped playing those kinds of games long ago.

Case in point, since I hit 60 with every job I've started running expert dungeons with whichever job has the most potential for gear upgrades. In my last eight expert runs I've seen exactly one (1) drop I could roll need on (and it just happened it was one I already had, so I had to pass anyway). Needless to say, I would not be running expert dungeons at all if that was the only reward.

It does sound like you are influenced by survivorship bias as well.

[Talraen]

It does sound like you are influenced by survivorship bias as well.

That's true. However, from a standpoint of trying to get as many players to play as possible, the fact that anyone is frustrated by this system makes it a bad system. Rewarding a segment of your players while annoying another segment is not neutral, it's a net negative. No one is paying you more because they got more gear.

[Kaurie]

That's true. However, from a standpoint of trying to get as many players to play as possible, the fact that anyone is frustrated by this system makes it a bad system. Rewarding a segment of your players while annoying another segment is not neutral, it's a net negative. No one is paying you more because they got more gear.

I find your argument confusing. The fact that there are some who prefer 1 system, some who prefer the other system, and some who prefer a mix, isn't Square doomed to hit that net negative with no matter what system they end up using then?

I think ultimately, you can only discern the net negative by determining the number of players that like each system, and the number of players that will quit or subscribe with each system. This is virtually impossible. This thread aims to gather some information on that, though. Looking at competitors, as mentioned previously, WoW has the highest subscriber rate of any MMO consistently and substantially for 12 years straight, and WoW uses a random stat system. This suggests that the success of an MMO is not dependent on using a tomestone system.

[Dzian]

When it comes to loot I hate tomestones as a primary source.

To me personally I would say the loot system the extreme primals use is almost perfect. (better if tokens didn't eat inventory space)

If you kill Sophia Extreme for example a weapon is guaranteed to drop for the party. It may or may not be a weapon you want. If it is then that's cool hope you win the roll.

If it isn't then don't worry because you also got a token. so even if you do the fight loads of times and the weapon you want never drops. after x number of wins (10 in the case of extreme primals) you'll have enough tokens to get your weapon no matter what. so progress is still guaranteed

Personally I think it's one of the best loot systems in place.

The issue with tomestones (currently Scripture) is that player's don't do the content for the loot, just the daily bonus.
no one cares about the 225 loot that drops from expert roulettes for example. all they care about is the 90 scripture they'll get at the end... just makes the content even more invalid and obselete than it already is...

[Ageofwar]

I like the Tome gear system since SE seems to have odd weights on gear drops atm to the point were healer and tank gear drops more then caster gear

[Talraen]

I find your argument confusing. The fact that there are some who prefer 1 system, some who prefer the other system, and some who prefer a mix, isn't Square doomed to hit that net negative with no matter what system they end up using then?

I'm not talking about people quitting because of what system exists, I'm talking about people quitting because they get frustrated by not getting any drops. My point is that changing a system that treats users equally to one that randomly benefits some users and harms others is a net negative. Maybe some people do quit or never play in the first place because of the tomestone system, but I am sure many would quit if they removed it (starting with myself).

[Kaurie]

I'm not talking about people quitting because of what system exists, I'm talking about people quitting because they get frustrated by not getting any drops. My point is that changing a system that treats users equally to one that randomly benefits some users and harms others is a net negative. Maybe some people do quit or never play in the first place because of the tomestone system, but I am sure many would quit if they removed it (starting with myself).

My point is that we have no idea how many people who did not sub in the first place, or quit because of the tomestone system, and we equally have no idea how many people would quit if the system was changed. Both systems directly affect if you get your drop, so the difference between getting your drop or changing the system is kind of moot.

[Talraen]

My point is that we have no idea how many people who did not sub in the first place, or quit because of the tomestone system, and we equally have no idea how many people would quit if the system was changed. Both systems directly affect if you get your drop, so the difference between getting your drop or changing the system is kind of moot.

I will grant that we don't know for a fact which of these two systems would be better. Are you proposing people no longer discuss things that don't have a factually known answer, then? Not really sure where you're going with this.

My opinion is that this game will greatly suffer if, at this point, they go from the current system to one consisting only of random drops.