WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[Cleftobismal]

This is the HPS average for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...t=5&metric=hps
if WHM is at 100%, AST is performing at 90%

This is the HPS on tanks for Alex Creator Savage:
https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...metric=tankhps
If WHM is at 100%, AST is at 97%.

So tell me, is 10% more AoE healing and 3% more tank healing equivalent to "I CAN HEAL ALOT MORE COMPARED TO AST!!"?

I am honestly bloody baffled why the general consensus is WHM has way more healing power compared to AST, when the hard cold facts are as above.

So you wan't AST to heal even less than it does now so you guys can have not just the most healing but healing miles ahead? Or are you asking for an unique Utility to be placed on WHM right now despite the three the healers aren't having a real issue right now. These numbers tell me nothing but WHM still heals more than AST.

Here is how I'm going to see it.

If we are truly going to add more than just heals on every single healer. Expect SE to nerf the potency of the WHM heals. We are actually in a good state right now for clearing end game content. And it just seems tiring to me that every time SE does something to another healer. WHM throws a fit. If SE truley listened to the complaints about the WHM class since 2.0. We would have a game destroying class. That is what I don't want to see happen.

I keep seeing all these suggestions for WHM's gaining buffs such as a way to increase the party dps or even reflect damage. But what are you guys going to give up in return? Your class is no way behind in clearing end game content. Yall are just bored of playing a healer.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

So you wan't AST to heal even less than it does now so you guys can have not just the most healing but healing miles ahead? Or are you asking for an unique Utility to be placed on WHM right now despite the three the healers aren't having a real issue right now. These numbers tell me nothing but WHM still heals more than AST.

What he means is Whm arent healing a lot more than Ast while not having any "real" utility, way worse mp management, and no mitigation capacity. If Whm are to be considered "the healer that heal more", he has to shine in this way. Compare WHM mitigation to Sch mitigation, WHM utility to either SCh or AST utility, then compare WHM healing capacity over the other two, the gap between the first two comparaison is huge, while the other gap is pretty negligeable. Remember that mitigation has no limit (more shield/reduction is always better), utility neither (more damage/resource regen is always better), while healing has (healing too much will always get you into overheal).

Since you edited your message, i'm adding a bit:

Ast has nearly the same raw healing output as WHM at the moment, if it wasnt for cure III which is extremely situational, you would have more healing power than us. What healing spell capacity would you lower? ast has the same healing capacity on his equivalent skill of cure, cure II, regen (a bit different use, but still), medica, medica II (which has lower range on the other side for Ast). your ED heals more than our tetra in average, so... you want to reduce cure III,assize and benediction, which are either extremely situational (cure III), mandatory for mp management (assize)? (not even gonna talk about benediction which is NOT an oh-shit button, gonna repeat it another time)

[Cleftobismal]

What he means is Whm arent healing a lot more than Ast while not having any "real" utility, way worse mp management, and no mitigation capacity. If Whm are to be considered "the healer that heal more", he has to shine in this way. Compare WHM mitigation to Sch mitigation, WHM utility to either SCh or AST utility, then compare WHM healing capacity over the other two, the gap between the first two comparaison is huge, while the other gap is pretty negligeable. Remember that mitigation has no limit (more shield/reduction is always better), utility neither (more damage/resource regen is always better), while healing has (healing too much will always get you into overheal).

I've never seen a tank complained about a healer until the party wipes. This whole thread isn't about boosting whm for the sake of keeping it in end game. It's just an out cry to have something in addition to it's top healing. It saddens me to hear you guys wan't to obliterate the concept of reactionary healing.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

Your reasoning isnt in the good way. Every healer at the moment can heal at the same level. Sch bring fairy and substained dps with various buffs (and even yoshida said he was OP right before the last AST buff went live), AST now brings huge utility, but WHM is still the same.
So what people are asking is why take WHM, when you can have AST and SCH?

By your reasoning, we can remove all dps skill of every healer and every dps boosting skills, because it doesnt impact the raw healing output of the healers. That's completely wrong.

[Accelerating]

I've never seen a tank complained about a healer until the party wipes. This whole thread isn't about boosting whm for the sake of keeping it in end game. It's just an out cry to have something in addition to it's top healing. It saddens me to hear you guys wan't to obliterate the concept of reactionary healing.

It's more about the fact that there no reason whatsoever to take a WHM over an AST for raiding.

[Cleftobismal]

So what people are asking is why take WHM, when you can have AST and SCH?

By your reasoning, we can remove all dps skill of every healer and every dps boosting skills, because it doesnt impact the raw healing output of the healers. That's completely wrong.

I don't know how you got to that conclusion. Healer DPS is an added bonus when SE calculates DPS checks. Something all the jobs have. Every job will have it's perks. And every job will be out shined in a few departments.

WHM heals the most.

SCH protects the most.

AST buffs the most.

Your class is fine. The majority is not denying you unless you are not doing your job as a WHM. If you wan't more than just Raw healing, Expect your potency to be nerfed to get something in return.

[Docteur_Fluttershy]

I get the fact that you are stubborn about it, so just explain to me, in a detailed way, with what WHM is healing way more than the other two, to the point of this raw healing output being equivalent to the mitigation of sch, or utility of AST from your opinion?

I got to that conclusion because of your 'tank doesnt complain so its fine'. If the healer doesnt dps, the tank wont complain either, so healer doesnt need dps, that's the same kind of logic.

[Accelerating]

I don't know how you got to that conclusion. Healer DPS is an added bonus when SE calculates DPS checks. Something all the jobs have. Every job will have it's perks. And every job will be out shined in a few departments.

WHM heals the most.

SCH protects the most.

AST buffs the most.

Your class is fine. The majority is not denying you unless you are not doing your job as a WHM. If you wan't more than just Raw healing, Expect your potency to be nerfed to get something in return.

1. Docteur_Fluttershy already proved to you that WHM only has a small edge in raw healing, nowhere enough to compensate for the lack of utility / resources that AST possess.
2. You can't balance WHM around raw healing. Even if he had substantially more healing power he would still either be useless (because the fights don't require such a big amount of healing) or overpowered (because the fights require that kind of healing).

[Ghishlain]

@Cleftobismal - Maybe this might be a better way to visualize this (objective values used)

WHM Healing = Grade A
WHM Utility = Grade D
WHM MP Restore = Grade B

AST Healing = Grade A-
AST Utility = Grade B+
AST MP Restore = Grade A+

Healing requirement for A12S is A-

With that in mind, do you think players would want WHM or AST more? While yes, people should play what they want, when you objectively compare the kits in that fashion it's hard to argue that you wouldn't want to take an AST over a WHM if you have the option to do so.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

@Cleftobismal: You're misunderstanding the point everyone's trying to make.
WHM has slightly more healing than AST yes, but only very slightly.
Ghishlain made a perfect example. If WHM is an A+ at healing, AST is an A-. Hardly any difference at all. They both heal perfectly well as potential main healers.

The problem comes with everything after that. WHM simply stops at healing while AST goes on to offer some of the best utility in the game, and MP restore on the level of AST. That's where it's weird. If an AST comes so close to our healing power, they shouldn't offer so strong of buffs. It makes us seem unnecessary if another job that offers more can just fill out shoes.

With AST and WHM you should be making a clear and obvious decision. Do you wants buffs or better healing? You should feel safer and be safer with a WHMs healing, and you should feel stronger with an AST. You should be able to see a noticeable difference in the power of a WHM vs AST Healing power.