WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[Cleftobismal]

No, not really. SCH is and has always been the WAR of healers. They're normally the off-role because of the great DPS both jobs are capable of.

I dunno. The cards are becoming so much more useful. I'm finding it easier to clear content as a AST than as I was a SCH. Just in my view. The light speed also helps me clear mobs faster than I could with SCH. And the instant healing while moving is very useful. The way we can use Synastry (Divine seal on crack) is very unique. I don't particular miss having a fairy for free heals. lol The CDS are at max 2 minutes. That's real nice.

[Cleftobismal]

I dunno. I still think WHM's can dish out quite the DPS more than an AST ever can. Both raid and in dungeon. I've seen WHM's pull it off and heal at the same time. You just need to be smart about your mana usage and your materia melding. I hear full Piety melds + accuracy actually works wonders.


Just to put it out there. I'm not saying AST needs more damage. Combust II is a bit powerful. lol

[Yeol]

^

A friend of mine went WHM for expert and was 2nd on dps.
He was behind NIN by 10 only!!! The NIN had iL268 and WHM iL248.
That holdy spam...

NIN is also my frind not some random person. He said if he made any mistakes with his rotation, WHM would have been top dps.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I dunno. The cards are becoming so much more useful. I'm finding it easier to clear content as a AST than as I was a SCH. Just in my view. The light speed also helps me clear mobs faster than I could with SCH. And the instant healing while moving is very useful. The way we can use Synastry (Divine seal on crack) is very unique. I don't particular miss having a fairy for free heals. lol The CDS are at max 2 minutes. That's real nice.

I don't think people are considering that with AST cards, the more the dps' gear is, the more powerful their cards will be.
20/30% or 10% aoe balance cards are absolutely ridiculous on well geared and well played DPS'.
I get that support is their identity and all, but to offer support this strong with nothing holding it back but a little RNG is, IMO, crazy. Not even WHM has heals this insanely broken to fit their identity, which is supposed to be string raw heals.

[Cleftobismal]

snip

150% Potency on a 20% card = 25% No?

The gears of an AST have nothing to do with the power of the AST cards. I'm not sure if you are that familiar with AST. But it's not a monster as you think. I can't heal as much as a whitemage does, and I don't damage as much as one. But I can still clear content with ease. I'm not sure if were on the same page here because WHM potency still is a bit larger than AST both dps and especially heals. True I can affect the party members dps directly. But so can you if you remember the small things such as stone skinning BLM's who are on ley lines, keeping hots and regens on them and other classes that require to be stationary. And your Crowd control is huge. Even if you can't use it in some raids, you can't disregard the CC WHM has irregardless. AST used to be a jack of all trades, specialty of none when it came out. But now we have our own identity as you call it to be fully fledged support healers that can buff. While WHM still remain at the top of healing, I find it a bit nerve wrecking that the class is being shunned by this stigma: "How dare you a class that starts out as nothing get a mechanic we don't have. And it's scary that your heal potency are matching up to a WHM" In my opinion, you guys really underestimate the power of burst healing. I couldn't fathom the SCH/WHM debate when WHMs were complaining: "Well, SCH can prevent overheals because they have shields, while our bomb heals will hit max hp excessively. . ." And this was before AST was in conception. Meanwhile the SCH's aren't really complaining about the class because A. Our mitigation will never be as powerful as theirs. Just like how our raw healing will never be as strong as a WHM. and B. We help them in the department that they don't shine too well in. Regens and Aoe healing. Emergency tactics and Indomitably helps but when those two are down, try spamming succor over and over to bring the parties hp up to healthy levels quickly. It's a challenge but the job SCH is still rewarding.


TLDR: WHM's we love you. You do your job Well. But please stop asking for too much and wait for the expansion to come out. They have a plan.

[Lastelli]

TLDR: WHM's we love you. You do your job Well. But please stop asking for too much and wait for the expansion to come out. They have a plan.

You probably didn't get his point. He was simply saying that on strong and well geared dps, the usefulness of cards is higher in absolute terms. Of course, a 10% damage buff on a dps at 2400 dps is a higher dps increase than the same 10% on a dps doing 1800 dps.

Also, WHM aren't asking for too much. Right now, they're significantly less desirable than AST for any kind of relevant content. AST never was a jack of all trades, it was clearly an inferior choice in the past. The reason why AST is quite overpowered right now lies entirely in their buffs and mana refresh tools which are clearly unbalanced when compared with what whm has to offer and has nothing to do with healing capabilities. Speedkills on fflogs are proof of this fact. This race has basically reduced to "let's see what party is luckier when it comes to drawing balances".

I believe they decided to do this to redeem AST since it was in a bad place before the huge buffs to noct and balance/bole and that they intend to rework all the healers in the next expansion, but still, the situation right now is very skewed in favor of ast.

[Cleftobismal]

Also, WHM aren't asking for too much. Right now, they're significantly less desirable than AST for any kind of relevant content. AST never was a jack of all trades, it was clearly an inferior choice in the past. The reason why AST is quite overpowered right now lies entirely in their buffs and mana refresh tools which are clearly unbalanced when compared with what whm has to offer and has nothing to do with healing capabilities. Speedkills on fflogs are proof of this fact. This race has basically reduced to "let's see what party is luckier when it comes to drawing balances".

This is exactly my point. Why does Scholar and Astrologian need to be like a whm, and do what a WHM does but be worse or even do the same thing. What is the point of having another healer class if we go by your argument on "buffs and mana refresh tools which are clearly unbalanced when compared with what whm has to offer". It's because WHM has a higher mp cost and AST doesn't because your skills do a much more immediate impact on the fight. Yes, you will always beat any other class to do immediate damage and healing. (Hence everyone agrees with WHM being the best dungeon runners) Yes, you will not have a game mechanic that effects the fight in the long run, because you just can't have both.

Ima be honest. As an AST. I always hope and pray that I get paired with a WHM, over a SCH and an AST. And I wouldn't be surprised if many others had the same thought process. You guys are an awesome class and I really just wish you wouldn't not only look down on yourselves like this, but glare at other classes when they stray away from the WHM path.




Also on her DPS point. Sorry misread it. Everything else I said stays the same.

[StrategistShiroe]

Ima be honest. As an AST. I always hope and pray that I get paired with a WHM, over a SCH and an AST. And I wouldn't be surprised if many others had the same thought process. You guys are an awesome class and I really just wish you wouldn't not only look down on yourselves like this, but glare at other classes when they stray away from the WHM path.

We look down on what we bring to the table over the other 2 classes. When everyone shouts "Utility! bring it or bust!" and then you go through the checklist...
Stoneskin/SS II, kinda meh, can be brought via Cross Class.
Protect!...Not Proshell...can be brought via Cross Class.
AOE Heals and Regens...Oh that's pretty much covered by ASTs at this point based on stance.
AOE DPS! Oh wait Most bosses don't need a ton of AOE and we can't keep it up with our lack of MP sustain in comparison.
Stone III and single target DPS! SCH does it better, for longer, while covering basic healing.
Oh hang on that MND party buff! Yeah only WHM brings that party rock in the house!....Well that PLD and other healer can use it right?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

@Cleftobismal: On the contrary, I want AST to get AWAY from WHM.

Ok, AST is a healer that focuses on high support. They should be strong with that. But they can't at the same tine offer healing power rivaling a WHMs.
It's not uncommon to see an AST actually healing MORE than a WHM on average. Outside of Cure III, WHM really doesn't have much to identify itself as a healer specialist other than more healing skills in total, which really aren't necessary in the long run.

I feel like AST in general was faulty in design. It came out in 3.0 with less healing potency than a WHM, but less MP and tons of support to make up for it. SE quickly realized before they can support, they need to heal well, so they buffed their healing potency up and it just went down from there.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Oh hang on that MND party buff! Yeah only WHM brings that party rock in the house!....Well that PLD and other healer can use it right?

Wanna here a joke? We may be losing that too.

I mean, it's completely useless no matter what anyone tells you, but just the fact that we just progressively lose more and more and more and more.
Next Holy is going to be crossclased.