WHM getting progressively more unnecessary in content?

[Thrivaios]

I know exactly what you mean by this. I had my extended, COd, time dilated balance overwritten by an AoE spire once. I put AST down and never picked it back up again.

I...want to cry for you. There is nothing more infuriating than a massive buff like that being overwritten, especially by something like AoE Spire.

[CookieMonsta]

The problem with N.AST+WHM lies not in what the pairing does, but what players expect a healer composition to do.

This also happens to be one of the best DPS combinations. The WHM can fire & forget regens, asylum etc etc and Cleric spam for dayz to abuse their ridiculous DPS while the AST can still contribute rDPS even in cleric.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

This also happens to be one of the best DPS combinations. The WHM can fire & forget regens, asylum etc etc and Cleric spam for dayz to abuse their ridiculous DPS while the AST can still contribute rDPS even in cleric.

In a perfect world, it would work like this and be awesome.
Unfortunately, there are multiple issues with this composition when it comes to getting out optimal healer dps.

First, And most obviously, WHM MP issues. Between constantly throwing out regens and DPSing, you'll be begging for Ballad 4 minutes in the fight.

Second, the lack of a fairy is technically one less regen ticking on the tank for no MP cost, which means you'll have to cradle the tank much more than normally.

Third, the fairy offers additional aoe regen and what is essentially a second Divine Seal making healing even easier. AST lacks all of this, which means you have to make it all up with less cleric stsnce uptime.

Like I said it's definitely the superior healing composition, but it's nowhere near optimal for dps.

I'd also like to note that the only "fire and forget" regen WHM has is Asylum. No ETCs.
Regen and Medica II are things you manage. Eos is something you forget about as it auto heals your party.

[Kabzy]

Eos is something you forget about as it auto heals your party.

Not really, a good SCH will manage both Embrace as well as all the fairy CDs. I agree it's easier for SCH to keep healing up while DPSing, but lets not completely discredit them. It's not braindead like you're saying.

[technole]

This also happens to be one of the best DPS combinations. The WHM can fire & forget regens, asylum etc etc and Cleric spam for dayz to abuse their ridiculous DPS while the AST can still contribute rDPS even in cleric.

Yep, AST/WHM is a much better comp this go-around. What I find some groups don't seem to synergize it optimally. As the N.AST should be the "main healer" in a sense because with same gear level, Benefic > Cure due to the stance healing buff. With this in-mind that allows the WHM to support them with AoE regens, and sustain DoT DPS more freely.

Not really, a good SCH will manage both Embrace as well as all the fairy CDs. I agree it's easier for SCH to keep healing up while DPSing, but lets not completely discredit them. It's not braindead like you're saying.

Agreed. The difference between a good and an average SCH is seen immediately from their Embrace and their pet cooldown management. Are they supporting their co-healer with skills and cooldowns so they don't have to spend more time healing than they should freeing them as well to put DPS DoTs up.

[Accelerating]

So why are most speed runners using SCH/AST instead of WHM/AST when that comp is really that much better?

[Exiled_Tonberry]

So why are most speed runners using SCH/AST instead of WHM/AST when that comp is really that much better?

The only situation where WHM/AST would be useful is in first couple of weeks progression. After that you're going to toss the WHM because there's no reason for the extra safe healing.
And even that's debatable because AST can heal just as well as WHM in diurnal.

[Yeol]

The only situation where WHM/AST would be useful is in first couple of weeks progression. After that you're going to toss the WHM because there's no reason for the extra safe healing.
And even that's debatable because AST can heal just as well as WHM in diurnal.

Same can be said to PLD. They are good for progresstion and then replaced with DRK mostly.

[technole]

Yeah, AST/SCH is the speed run combo. The current dream comp is DRK/WAR/AST/SCH/NIN/DRG/BRD/MCH. Although you can swap MCH for a caster just fine, just the double ranged utility is a bit overpowered this tier. PLD, MNK, and WHM are the least desired.

The only situation where WHM/AST would be useful is in first couple of weeks progression. After that you're going to toss the WHM because there's no reason for the extra safe healing.
And even that's debatable because AST can heal just as well as WHM in diurnal.

It's a fallacy to think WHM is "safer" for progression, it's not. AST mitigation and buff toolkit is too good to ignore this tier. It's also no coincidence world first Creator Savage was AST/SCH and their DPS was much higher than the subsequent followers that brought White Mage.

Same can be said to PLD. They are good for progresstion and then replaced with DRK mostly.

Nope. PLD hasn't been optimal for progression since DRK was introduced in 3.0.

Absolutely DRK>>>>PLD in A12S cause it's all magic, again. Their Dark Mind cooldown cuts down on tank swaps and also brings more DPS. Despite PLD buffs, and QoL changes last cycle they are still quite a bit behind.

[Yeol]

Nope. PLD hasn't been optimal for progression since DRK was introduced in 3.0.

Absolutely DRK>>>>PLD in A12S cause it's all magic, again. Their Dark Mind cooldown cuts down on tank swaps and also brings more DPS. Despite PLD buffs, and QoL changes last cycle they are still quite a bit behind.

I know that DRK is better for A12S than PLD. But A9S-A10S-A11S PLD can do them just fine.
In our group we used PLD/WHM for progression and DRK/AST when farming.
A12S is a different story.

So PLD replaced by DRK and WHM replaced by AST.
It would have been better if we went DRK/AST from the beginning. But WHM/PLD make things easier when learning (A12S is an exception).