Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[Madrone]

But on a dummy, B3 > B4 > T1 is superior to B3 > T1 > B4.

Wouldn't you have to wait for an mp tick for that B4 (unless piety >= 310), whereas you never wait for the mp to cast T1 if Piety >= 284? So your statement is true if Piety <= 283 or tick timing was perfect. Its not true if Piety is between 284 and 309 and tick timing wasn't perfect. Its true again, if Piety is 310+ or tick timing was perfect.

[Aloise]

Wouldn't you have to wait for an mp tick for that B4 (unless piety >= 310), whereas you never wait for the mp to cast T1 if Piety >= 284? So your statement is true if Piety <= 283 or tick timing was perfect. Its not true if Piety is between 284 and 309 and tick timing wasn't perfect. Its true again, if Piety is 310+ or tick timing was perfect.

Correct. Achieving 310 Piety on any race requires the same number of melds. 5 if no relic, none if relic. Now, that's lost substats. Let's assume the worst case scenario and say you lose out on 5 SpS melds. That's -60 SpS, weighted at -17 AP. BiS values for INT are going to top out right around 1600. 17/1600 = about a 1% AP/DPS decrease. However, having to cast T1 when you don't have to is somewhere in the ballpark of a 25-10 PPS decrease. It's quite hard if not impossible to mathematically prove it, but when the PPS of F4 is hovering around the 190 area, it seems like losing the PPS is worse than losing 1% damage. SSS for A12S is 2347 DPS. 1% of that is 23 DPS. I have a feeling that 10-25 PPS, even if you don't gain that 100% of the time, translates to more than a piddly 23 DPS.

[StouterTaru]

Wouldn't you have to wait for an mp tick for that B4 (unless piety >= 310), whereas you never wait for the mp to cast T1 if Piety >= 284? So your statement is true if Piety <= 283 or tick timing was perfect. Its not true if Piety is between 284 and 309 and tick timing wasn't perfect. Its true again, if Piety is 310+ or tick timing was perfect.

If you're always casting T1 after B4, then the math is the same as always casting T1 before B4, and the piety stays the same. You're looking at:
B4 (no tick) > F3 > F1 + 4xF4 > B3 > T1
vs
T1 (no tick) > F3 > F1 + 4xF4 > B3 > B4

So your formula is for all Thunder damage, assuming recast of T1 if you don't get a proc?

I guess you could use that to compare whether or not it's worth casting any Thunder at all if you get a quick MP tick in UI, but it doesn't take that much math to get the answer. The entire rotation without Thunder is around 150 PPS (using your 2.2s GCD), so adding thunder will be a dps gain 99% of the time.

[Aloise]

So your formula is for all Thunder damage, assuming recast of T1 if you don't get a proc?

I guess you could use that to compare whether or not it's worth casting any Thunder at all if you get a quick MP tick in UI, but it doesn't take that much math to get the answer. The entire rotation without Thunder is around 150 PPS (using your 2.2s GCD), so adding thunder will be a dps gain 99% of the time.

When you cast T1, it and the resulting procs will sum to an average of a 175 PPS attack to your rotation. F4 adds, always, a ~190 PPS attack to your rotation. Getting in an extra F4 instead of a T1 is a PPS gain, and this does not take into consideration the fact that you might have to sacrifice multiple F4s to get to that 175 PPS Thunder chain. Re-read my statement. I have two conditions attached to when casting T1 is a PPS loss, and they are fast tick + lose a F4 as a result. Whether or not it's a PPS loss when you don't lose a F4 is in the air.

[StouterTaru]

When you cast T1, it and the resulting procs will sum to an average of a 175 PPS attack to your rotation. F4 adds, always, a ~190 PPS attack to your rotation. Getting in an extra F4 instead of a T1 is a PPS gain, and this does not take into consideration the fact that you might have to sacrifice multiple F4s to get to that 175 PPS Thunder chain. Re-read my statement. I have two conditions attached to when casting T1 is a PPS loss, and they are fast tick + lose a F4 as a result. Whether or not it's a PPS loss when you don't lose a F4 is in the air.

You're not sacrificing multiple F4s; you're sacrificing F4s, F3s, F1s, B3s, and B4s by making your rotation take longer.

The only time you actually sacrifice a F4 is after your 2nd B4. At that point, you're giving up a F4 for a T1, clipped TC, and an extra F1 (since you have 3300 MP when Enochian falls). Casting those increases the dps of your entire rotation more than a single F4.

[Aloise]

You're not sacrificing multiple F4s; you're sacrificing F4s, F3s, F1s, B3s, and B4s by making your rotation take longer.

The only time you actually sacrifice a F4 is after your 2nd B4. At that point, you're giving up a F4 for a T1, clipped TC, and an extra F1 (since you have 3300 MP when Enochian falls). Casting those increases the dps of your entire rotation more than a single F4.

You are speaking in terms of a single 30-25-20s Eno cycle, I am speaking in terms of an entire fight. You push your GCDs back by having to cast T1 and use T3Ps. Because Enochian is up before the 20s Enochian is over, the quicker you can get to the end of it, the quicker you can pump out more F4.

[StouterTaru]

You are speaking in terms of a single 3-Eno cycle, I am speaking in terms of an entire fight.

An entire fight is made up of multiple 3-Eno cycles. If you do 10 eno cycles at 150 PPS in the same time you could otherwise do 9 eno cycles at 155 PPS, which is more damage?

You push your GCDs back by having to cast T1 and use T3Ps. Because Enochian is up before the 20s Enochian is over, the quicker you can get to the end of it, the quicker you can pump out more F4.

To pump out those extra F4s, you need to pump out extra F3s, F1s, B3s, and B4s.

[Aloise]

An entire fight is made up of multiple 3-Eno cycles. If you do 10 eno cycles at 150 PPS in the same time you could otherwise do 9 eno cycles at 155 PPS, which is more damage?

This is fair. However, there are still cases where casting T1/using T3Ps can slide off ONLY F4s from your rotation. In those cases, it is a DPS loss, but I do see the point now.

At the very least, I've procured some nice numbers about Thunder.

Now I won't be able to sleep until I figure out how much of a gain it is. Great.