Have we moved to an age where taking hate as a dps = bad dps instead of bad tank?

[Zojha]

Elusive jump is something completly different. Other classes don't lose dps if they use their emnity reducing skills and they should use them.

It's not a particularly big DPS loss if you use Spineshatter Dive or Dragonfire Dive right after, because you'll be right back at the target and DRGs "normal" GCD should allow for double OGCD usage within a GCD window.

I mean, you can also say that quelling strikes on BLM is a DPS loss because the 0,5 second animation lock of quelling are 0,5 seconds you aren't casting Fire/Ice. That's true - but not a significant loss.

[Ilan]

It's not a particularly big DPS loss if you use Spineshatter Dive or Dragonfire Dive right after, because you'll be right back at the target and DRGs "normal" GCD should allow for double OGCD usage within a GCD window.

I mean, you can also say that quelling strikes on BLM is a DPS loss because the 0,5 second animation lock of quelling are 0,5 seconds you aren't casting Fire/Ice. That's true - but not a significant loss.

And if you don't have the other jumps ready you have to run forward again. We could discuss over that for a long time and if you really compare that to quelling on blm we could also start to discuss why a tank should start tanking in tank stance anyway because its a huge dps loss but we all know the answer to that so its useless to discuss that.

[Lambdafish]

And if you don't have the other jumps ready you have to run forward again. We could discuss over that for a long time and if you really compare that to quelling on blm we could also start to discuss why a tank should start tanking in tank stance anyway because its a huge dps loss but we all know the answer to that so its useless to discuss that.

So plan better and use elusive jump when you have other jumps available. In this case it is the tanks fault, I think most people can agree on that, but the topic has moved forward into standard practice, and standard practice is that everyone is accountable for their own skill management. In any given scenario there could be any number of factors contributing to the problem, for example, I had issues in A5S to begin with because both me and my BLM hadn't concreted our openers for such a fast tank swap, once we talked and figured it out, we both improved.

[Ilan]

So plan better and use elusive jump when you have other jumps available. In this case it is the tanks fault, I think most people can agree on that, but the topic has moved forward into standard practice, and standard practice is that everyone is accountable for their own skill management. In any given scenario there could be any number of factors contributing to the problem, for example, I had issues in A5S to begin with because both me and my BLM hadn't concreted our openers for such a fast tank swap, once we talked and figured it out, we both improved.

Of cause it is the tanks fault if he loses hate when he starts tanking without tank stance. Thats why i said we don't have to discuss that. Doing things with your static is also a different thing since you can talk with each other, test things and people listen and answer. DF is a "zone" where you have to use your emnity reducing skills if you are a dps or a healer because you never know the tanks. I see it myself pretty often that you have some dps in a group who are never using quelling strikes and it annoys me when i'm the tank because it makes me stay in my damn tank stance since i could lose hate to this dps even if the rest hits like a wet noodle. That makes the runs longer than necessary.

[randysquirrel]

DF is a "zone" where you have to use your emnity reducing skills

9 times out of 10 in df, the tank will start running to boss, ill pop QS and begin casting my fire1. then tank suddenly stops. I cancel cast. they stand still for no reason. QS drops off. then we begin and I rip aggro

always entertaining

[Mhaeric]

9 times out of 10 in df, the tank will start running to boss, ill pop QS and begin casting my fire1. then tank suddenly stops. I cancel cast. they stand still for no reason. QS drops off. then we begin and I rip aggro

always entertaining

This isn't just a DPS vs. Tank thing either. I get this a lot with a pre-cast Adloquium. That thing lasts 30 seconds, and yet more times than I can count in a trial or a boss the tank waits until the last 2 or 3 seconds of the effect before pulling just as I start to recast it to replace the effect. I end up having to cancel the cast so I don't end up instantly pulling hate. It's like they think having Galvanize up on a pull behaves like a regen tick instead of a stoneskin or something. I can't explain the behaviour any other way. It's frustrating.

[Ilan]

If i use quelling and still get agro, i am sorry but that would be tank. And this does happen when i play blm that i get agro, not all the time of course.
So sometimes i even switch targets, and then get agro on those, so it goes to show the tank is not rotating between enemies or using aoe abilities to get hate
While going as Ninja and i know i am with a blm (or another job that i observe is grabbing agro) i will use smokescreen on them before attacks and use shadewalker to be sure i myself am not getting agro

Yes thats obviously the tanks fault.

9 times out of 10 in df, the tank will start running to boss, ill pop QS and begin casting my fire1. then tank suddenly stops. I cancel cast. they stand still for no reason. QS drops off. then we begin and I rip aggro

always entertaining

Well that would be a new experience for me.