i am not mass pull tank

[DeadRiser]

"A smooth dungeon run is the way to go."

What the HELL kind of dungeons are you guys running? Doing multiple pulls at once is smooth. Enjoy your time in the dungeon? When you will see the SAME dungeon the following day?

A lot of these tanks claiming they will let their dps/healers die if more is pulled are assholes. You aren't the only one in the group. You make up 25% of the party. You can be replaced.

[MistakeNot]

But there is a good reason. It's efficient, utilizes the power of your jobs, is quicker, is more exciting for all roles.

Pulling one enemy at a time is just boring, makes running dungeons a drag.
I'll put it like this. If I was in the mood to just troll some random group of people wanting to get through their dailies, I'd hop on a ILV 260 tanks and single pull enemies in Xelphatol.

Does that sound mean? Well that's exactly what single pulling is.

It is only quicker and more efficient if the DPS can provide good AOE dps, and if the tank+healer has no problem staying alive.
More exciting it may well be - but that is not necessarily a good thing.

I have never been into Xelphatol, so I don't know what that would be like. What I do know is that in very dungeon I have been to I actually prefer if tanks make as small pulls as they can.

[MistakeNot]

If you're getting healed and staying alive it's technically a playstyle. If the tank wants to play a certain way that's viable enough for him, I can play in a way that's viable enough for me. If you're not willing to out in effort with your role I won't either.

Beside, a Monk with physick crossclased could keep you up pulling single enemies at a time.

Monks can't crossclass Physick.

[AngeloFlick]

SO! in response to this whole "tanks needing to always mass pull without exception" scenario...
Mass pulls are not always on the tank to do. I will always start with a mass-pull, but its on the DPS to contribute. I will revoke the "privilege" of a "faster" run only if you actually bother to help me with that. I don't need a parser to know a BLM is "bad" when I see blizzard 3 in a trash pack of 10+ mobs at 50%+ HP. I don't need a parser to see that I have cooldowns up far sooner than I should.

I will adjust to YOUR speed. Give me a reason WHY I should continue to mass pull before you start verbally assaulting me. I made my choice based on YOUR performance.
This sort of scenario is extremely common in DF and is why I will NEVER force a tank to "pull more already".

Either that or it's patch day and I dont know where the gates are, so I'm going to test the waters.

If the tank is responsible and borderline REQUIRED to do mass pulls...

...then why are tanks responsible for the SPEED at which the pull is completed?

I'm being serious here. I've seen posts recently that people vote kick or will drop a group based on if the tank is a PLD or not. I want answers. So I'll ask it again.

Why are tanks responsible for the SPEED at which a mass pull is completed?

I'm a tank. My job is to hold emnity, get hit in the face, and retaliate as hard as I can. MY job, ESPECIALLY AS A PLD, is NOT to do more AoE damage than a BLM. It is NOT my job to pull a dungeon, single-handedly kill them all, and let YOU walk out with the rewards.

This mentality and DPS under performing has actually FORCED me ask, in Gubal HM, if the healer or DPS can even HANDLE the full frog pull. Because guess what? It's always my fault.
"You should have pulled more."
"Why the **** did you pull them all!?"
Yes, it's some form of that, nearly every time I get Gubal HM. People have been getting much more vocal lately when they don't get their way.

Agreeing so hard with all of this. Now I would like to add a disclaimer - I really enjoy pulling big and the fact that my spouse queues with me as a white mage helps facilitate that. We know our timing and coordinate cooldowns. Once things get rolling he spam casts Holy to his heart's content, mobs melt, I don't die and it's awesome. But. BUT. If the DPS is not up to snuff or doesn't have sufficient AE, I'm not going to pull as hard. As a paladin I can be a brick wall and hold a huge pack of mobs with my cooldowns so the healer can stunlock and DPS but we aren't there to carry people and kill the pack. The DPS, whose job it is to make the majority of the damage happen, has to do it. If I don't think you can handle the full frog pull in GL HM you're not getting it. If the DPS is especially bad I won't even do the full pull from the previous room to the book hall, because we've died there from sub-par DPS before.

The overall speed of the run is not on me because I while can pull as far as the dungeon allows, when stuff dies too slow that's the fault of the DPS. Not me, and not the healer. And if the DPS is so bad that my healer is gonna run out of mana before the pack dies, I'm not going to full pull anymore. If you're a newbie with so-so gear, well that happens. Or if you're not comfortable with big pulls say so. I don't sweat it. But if you have good gear and want bigger pulls but the tank isn't full pulling? Maybe quit watching Netflix and do your damn rotation properly.

[MihaelB]

It is only quicker and more efficient if the DPS can provide good AOE dps, and if the tank+healer has no problem staying alive.
More exciting it may well be - but that is not necessarily a good thing.

I have never been into Xelphatol, so I don't know what that would be like. What I do know is that in very dungeon I have been to I actually prefer if tanks make as small pulls as they can.

What exactly are you applying your theory on? I think most are talking about mass pulls on Xelphatol/ Gubal Library hard. Arguing mass pulling in dungeons sub 60 is pretty futile as most people don't even have a proper rotation or gear yet.

[Kaurie]

I'm being serious here. I've seen posts recently that people vote kick or will drop a group based on if the tank is a PLD or not. I want answers. So I'll ask it again.

Why are tanks responsible for the SPEED at which a mass pull is completed?

I'm a tank. My job is to hold emnity, get hit in the face, and retaliate as hard as I can. MY job, ESPECIALLY AS A PLD, is NOT to do more AoE damage than a BLM. It is NOT my job to pull a dungeon, single-handedly kill them all, and let YOU walk out with the rewards.

People kicking because the job of a tank? That seems kind of crazy. Are the people posting this sure that was the problem (i.e. did someone say, "You're a PLD, bye?" or was it just a random kick and they assumed that)? Obviously, a warrior is the most desired option. It's very difficult for anyone to beat the WAR/WHM/SMN/SMN set up - I think we cleared in ~11 minutes or so. That doesn't mean that I would kick a tank over the PLD/WHM/SMN/SMN set up that will take 13 minutes :| Even if I wanted to (I don't), the wait for a new tank will exceed any time savings in the run.

[LineageRazor]

i am not mass pull tank

I am sorry you are not mass pull tank. Your dungeon runs must be amazingly boring. Safe, perhaps, but so very, very, mind-numbingly boring. My condolences to you and your parties!

The occasional, VERY rare wipe, is well worth getting into the practice of large pulls. Some tanks are terrified at the prospect of a wipe. Don't be. It happens. Just dust yourself off; if it was a silly mistake that lead to the wipe, try again. If not, if it was simply too much for the group to handle, NOW is the time to slow your pace.

Alternatively, start slow, then pick up the pace as you gauge how well your group is handling themselves. But unless you have some real-life physical handicap (only have one hand, suffer from cerebral palsy, etc) there's really no excuse not to work to bring out your party's potential!

A lot of these tanks claiming they will let their dps/healers die if more is pulled are assholes.

Not just tanks. There's a phrase for individuals who deliberately sabotage the runs they are a part of if the other party members don't do it exactly how they want them to. "Control freaks."

People kicking because the job of a tank? That seems kind of crazy. Are the people posting this sure that was the problem (i.e. did someone say, "You're a PLD, bye?" or was it just a random kick and they assumed that)? Obviously, a warrior is the most desired option. It's very difficult for anyone to beat the WAR/WHM/SMN/SMN set up - I think we cleared in ~11 minutes or so. That doesn't mean that I would kick a tank over the PLD/WHM/SMN/SMN set up that will take 13 minutes :| Even if I wanted to (I don't), the wait for a new tank will exceed any time savings in the run.

Yeah, this is nuts. The only way I'd ever see a group kicking the tank just because they're a PLD, is if they have a WAR already lined up to join the instance. And if that did happen, the PLD could just shrug, requeue, and be in another instance in a heartbeat. For a group that doesn't have another tank waiting in the wings, the amount that a WAR adds to the speed of a clear over PLD does not come anywhere close to the amount of time that it will take for the group to wait for a new tank to join.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Unfortunately, with how powerful everyone is in lv 50/60 dungeons, if you're not mass pulling you're purposely wasting time.

A healer would sooner pull themselves and stack heals on themselves than deal with a short pulling tank. It's simply the nature of this game in the layer dungeons, enjoy short pulls in the levels dungeons though.

Can confirm. My healer friend wasn't paying attention in a Xelphatol run and let me die. Didn't stop her from tanking a big pack of mobs herself as a Scholar after. The only exception I'll give is leveling dungeons, especially if you have a poor aoe comp. Those players aren't necessarily experienced with big pulls. Once you're at fifty though, all bets are off.

[Alleo]

Well I main a DD and sometimes I go into it as a healer. I wont pull more monsters on purpose if the tank is pulling slow because I find this to be really mean to the tank. But I am also not really happy inside if they pull one small monster group at a time, especially if everyone is geared well and you have two mages as DD. I would also not kick someone for this only if the skill of anyone in the group is so low that we dont manage to survive the boss.

But if someone even if he knows the dungeon and has good equipment still decides to go slow, please dont turn around if a bard for example does not use songs..you are not going in with your full potential so dont be angry if the others are not using their full potential too. (I am always trying to be at least good, I am not my best on every dungeon run but I wont deal lesser damage on purpose because in the end this would mean an even longer run)

And if someone runs into the next monster group as a accident and even says sorry for it be so nice and take the monsters from them..

I do believe that every job should be playing at least in a decent way and for tanks this often means that they set a nice pace. Depending on the group this could mean a speedrun or a slower run. And its okay to pull less because you dont feel confident enough or because it would be too much but dont turn around and want Healer that dps or DD that play great. (As a summoner I sadly cant use my full potential with only two monsters T_T I wanna go "delete" on many monsters)

[SenorPatty]

I see tank pulling small, I leave.

Pretty much this. I dont mind taking the 30m hit cuz I figure I landed on that 1 out of 10 chance of landing a party where the tank wont mass pull.