Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

[Reynhart]

I know it's not exactly the best example for our discussion since we're talking about 1/2/5 vs 2/2/4 compositions, but this at least shows that adding 1 extra dps matters a lot when you optimize your group composition.

This still wouldn't be the best example to use the current raid design with the current tanks to state what could or couldn't be done.

Besides, on such short fights, the difference is less "pronounced" that "virtually inflated". In the 46s kill time, you almost has 50% uptime for Hypercharge, of course it would have a tremendous effect. It's like doing a 30s parse on a triple Fell Cleave opener to claim WAR can top even the most powerfull and skilled DPS. For the record, how did those two groups do on the actual boss ?

[aleph_null]

This still wouldn't be the best example to use the current raid design with the current tanks to state what could or couldn't be done.

I just gave the example above to show that adding one extra dps matters a lot for your raid dps due to job synergies and raidwide dps boosts. Balancing a tank (or healer) that's "designed" to be able to solo tank (or heal) contents meant for two tanks (or healers) is NOT as simple as balancing 1 dps + 1 tank vs 2 tanks (or 1 dps + 1 healer vs 2 healers) like you said earlier in this thread:

He makes it sound real important that you "suddenly have 5 DPS"...when in fact, it's just one DPS and one tank that you have to balance against a tank duo.

So yeah, "suddenly having 5 dps instead of 4" is a real big deal, since the raid dps difference is actually more/comparable to the dps of some of the best dps players out there... unless maybe you expect them to massively nerf raid buffs and job synergies in the next expansion (not impossible, who knows?).


As for your next question,

For the record, how did those two groups do on the actual boss ?

I can't find their logs on a9s boss with a solo healer composition. I know it's possible to solo heal that fight (and also solo tank, I've seen it a while ago on reddit), but considering that the fastest clears of a9s boss all have the traditional 2/2/4 composition, I guess solo tanking/healing refurbisher is just not the most efficient way to clear it (cmiiw, maybe someone more knowledgeable about this can elaborate).

[Brian_]

This still wouldn't be the best example to use the current raid design with the current tanks to state what could or couldn't be done.

Well at least now you are just admitting your argument has no intellectual honesty and that we can just throw your idea in the trash can.

So what? Instead, we should just base everything off of absolutely nothing? Just completely make everything up? And trust that it will work? Basically re-balance all the jobs and re-design all the content because of your vision of what a tank should be?

Like I said, incredibly dishonest, selfish, and ignorant. The support for your argument is based on dismissing everything we know about the game, its developer, and its players and replacing it with your imagination.

If you want the game to be a different game, you should just go play a different game.

[Sarcatica]

I did solo heal for a9s before. Both MT and single healer seemingly struggled to do more dps. I was using PLD back then and I felt that I had to switch on ShO more. WAR can do close to a DPS range in a9s due to the aoe, so there is no question on that. The main issue is the correlation of MT and the healer(s) total DPS. The fastest a9s should still be 3:17 from Rushers and they do normal comp for that fyi.

I have a feeling that DRG/NIN/BRD/MCH is currently the best DPS comp for Creator to play with mostly because all of them synergize well as a group. The reported fastest a12s is below 9mins and that comp highlights killing alex prime before last phase began.

Link: https://youtu.be/vXubi1TSXqI

Currently MNK, PLD and WHM are not included in top speedruns due to obvious reasons. WHM is still somewhat used in a9s because the job itself has more burst in a shorter fight, paired up with AST. AST/SCH combo is still preferred though.

[Launched]

I can't find their logs on a9s boss with a solo healer composition. I know it's possible to solo heal that fight (and also solo tank, I've seen it a while ago on reddit), but considering that the fastest clears of a9s boss all have the traditional 2/2/4 composition, I guess solo tanking/healing refurbisher is just not the most efficient way to clear it (cmiiw, maybe someone more knowledgeable about this can elaborate).

I did solo heal for a9s before. Both MT and single healer seemingly struggled to do more dps. I was using PLD back then and I felt that I had to switch on ShO more. WAR can do close to a DPS range in a9s due to the aoe, so there is no question on that. The main issue is the correlation of MT and the healer(s) total DPS. The fastest a9s should still be 3:17 from Rushers and they do normal comp for that fyi.

Speaking of A9S, a very impressive 2:35 kill just got uploaded not too long ago. The overall DPS is pretty ridiculous:
https://www.twitch.tv/doglooxt/v/102598148
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/69kAK...pe=damage-done

[Sarcatica]

Speaking of A9S, a very impressive 2:35 kill just got uploaded not too long ago. The overall DPS is pretty ridiculous:
https://www.twitch.tv/doglooxt/v/102598148
https://www.fflogs.com/reports/69kAK...pe=damage-done

Single tank single healer while not lowering their overall dps, that's as impressive it can get. Also skipping the faust entirely which is huge. A9S so far is the only turn that doesn't require double tank in Creator. We may also see a11s and a12s solo tanked at some point too.

[Gildarts]

Single tank single healer while not lowering their overall dps, that's as impressive it can get. Also skipping the faust entirely which is huge. A9S so far is the only turn that doesn't require double tank in Creator. We may also see a11s and a12s solo tanked at some point too.

probably the only problem in solo tanking A12s would be the time/might unless you have one DPS eat the buster with adlo and maybe um apoc it could work, time gate one would probably need LB to get rid of it.

[Sarcatica]

probably the only problem in solo tanking A12s would be the time/might unless you have one DPS eat the buster with adlo and maybe um apoc it could work, time gate one would probably need LB to get rid of it.

Actually, 6 dps 1 tank 1 healer comp needs more testing because potentially it can well be very viable for speedruns. A10s might be done if 6dps can push boss before tank swap happens. A12s already has 3 people going in for timegate, if you assign drg to tank both mights and nin lb2 healer add at timegate then help the drg, there is a good chance it can be done and overall it will be a good dps boost.

[Casualty]

probably the only problem in solo tanking A12s would be the time/might unless you have one DPS eat the buster with adlo and maybe um apoc it could work, time gate one would probably need LB to get rid of it.

Even if you could survive the Might as a DPS class, both during the first intermission and then again during the time gate, it would be difficult to survive and soak the voids of repentance and then you would have the inability to tank swap the Chastening Heat. The vuln there lasts quite a long time, preventing you from eating the busters and keeping Alexander as you will be getting auto-attacks in the 30k range.

[Reynhart]

Well at least now you are just admitting your argument has no intellectual honesty and that we can just throw your idea in the trash can.

Seriously, that's your big plot twist ? That the game is not balanced for turtling...now ? No kidding...
It's not as if we were talking about what could be changed instead of just forcing one path on everyone, right ?

But, hey since you claimed that exotic setup would totally break the game, I suppose it is broken now with the logs posted there.

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/69kAK...pe=damage-done

Interesting. If you look at the corresponding Faust-Z fight, they killed it in 47s with 6 DPS, whereas the 46s posted earlier was with only 5 DPS.