Auto attack: A complete battle system

[Alcide]

i'll say it again

With the current UI, I feel that it's too cumbersome NOT have some sort of auto attack.
especially with a game pad, and when the PS3 version is released this is what people will complain about.

as of now this is how battle goes:

Basic attack --> --> --> --> --> TP SKILL <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- Basic attack <up> --> --> --> JOB ABILLITY <down> <-- <-- <-- BASIC ATTACK BASIC ATTACK BASIC ATTACK --> --> --> TP SKILL

Thats 8 actions which takes 29 button presses.

Most of that can be avoided by using strictly a keyboard and 8 actions only take as many button presses.

Adding Auto attack won't necessarily reduce the amount of button presses it takes to navigate the current battle UI but allow a less frantic pace to navigation.
you can rely on Auto attack to build your TP while you navigate the tabs for your next skill.

back in alpha the pace of battle was much slower, where attacks took 5-10 seconds (no lag) this allowed time to choose your next attack the battle UI was much more manageable. When they updated the combat system in Beta they didn't touch the battle UI. It's time for a change.

LOL

You know you can move your actions, don't you?

[MariyaShidou]

i'll say it again

With the current UI, I feel that it's too cumbersome NOT have some sort of auto attack.
especially with a game pad, and when the PS3 version is released this is what people will complain about.

as of now this is how battle goes:

Basic attack --> --> --> --> --> TP SKILL <-- <-- <-- <-- <-- Basic attack <up> --> --> --> JOB ABILLITY <down> <-- <-- <-- BASIC ATTACK BASIC ATTACK BASIC ATTACK --> --> --> TP SKILL

Thats 8 actions which takes 29 button presses.

Most of that can be avoided by using strictly a keyboard and 8 actions only take as many button presses.

Adding Auto attack won't necessarily reduce the amount of button presses it takes to navigate the current battle UI but allow a less frantic pace to navigation.
you can rely on Auto attack to build your TP while you navigate the tabs for your next skill.

back in alpha the pace of battle was much slower, where attacks took 5-10 seconds (no lag) this allowed time to choose your next attack the battle UI was much more manageable. When they updated the combat system in Beta they didn't touch the battle UI. It's time for a change.

I don't know about you but this is how I do it at NM as a LNC:

Speed Surge II -> Invigorate II -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Macro 1 BR shout -> Keen Flurry -> Raging Strike -> Ferocity -> Hawk's Eye -> Macro 2 BR activate -> (Feint) -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (depends on what I used back in BR) -> (Feint) -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Skewer II -> (Feint) -> Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (If I didn't have to Feint)

That's my one cycle, depends on my Stamina available I would throw in more Stamina-less buff. The best part is I only use one bar.

[ChiefCurrahee]

LOL

You know you can move your actions, don't you?

/sarcasm
oh you can?......

On my ability bar I have my first bar filled with my most commonly used attacks. On my #2 bar I have my enhancing and buff abilities on bar #3 I have my AoE attacks.

(keep in mind " > " is right button press " < " left button press in this post. )

I usually stick to my first bar Unless of course Protect wears off, or Shock Spikes or I need Speed Surge back up then It's:

Full Thrust (up) > > > Protect > Shock Spikes (down) < < < < Full Thrust > Skewer II > Feint < < Full Thrust

21 Button presses for 7 actions

Even is all these skills are in a row it looks like this:
Full thrust > Protect > Shock Spikes < < Full Thrust > > > Skewer II > Feint < < < < Full Thrust

to do 7 actions it takes 19 button presses. Thats with all the skills lined up in a row.

What would Auto Attack do in this situation?

Basic attacks (Light Thrust Heavy Thrust and Full Thrust) will become your auto attack

SO it now looks like this
(auto attack) Protect > Shock Spikes (auto attack ) > Skewer II > Feint (Auto attack)
7 button presses for a total of 7 actions.

Dealing with a mouse and K/B and pressing 1 2 3 4 5 1 is fine and dandy, but you aren't dealing with just keyboard gamers with this game. In the future You'll have PS3 users who will be complaining of this as they will use the controller as their #1 input.

Adding auto attack to create a less hectic system is the best middle ground solution for controller (PS3/ some PC) users VS K/B mouse users.

People have complained about no one chatting in FFXIV, maybe one of the side effects of auto attack will be more free time to type a few words and let auto attack take a round or two.

as far as voice chat. When was the last time you were on PSN or Xboxlive and didn't have some kid cussing up a storm or some ignorant person throwing racial slurs left and right? Or the person who has a domestic argument with a open mic? Or the person who's open mic is nothing but static? The only time I've had had any tolerable VoIP experiences was with my LS over ventrillo and even then there were times when I just wanted to turn it off. Lets not even mention those people who don't like to talk on vent and would rather type what do you do about them?

[Alcide]

/sarcasm
oh you can?......

On my ability bar I have my first bar filled with my most commonly used attacks. On my #2 bar I have my enhancing and buff abilities on bar #3 I have my AoE attacks.

(keep in mind " > " is right button press " < " left button press in this post. )

I usually stick to my first bar Unless of course Protect wears off, or Shock Spikes or I need Speed Surge back up then It's:

Full Thrust (up) > > > Protect > Shock Spikes (down) < < < < Full Thrust > Skewer II > Feint < < Full Thrust

21 Button presses for 6 actions

Even is all these skills are in a row it looks like this:
Full thrust > Protect > Shock Spikes < < Full Thrust > > > Skewer II > Feint < < < < Full Thrust

to do 7 actions it takes 19 button presses. Thats with all the skills lined up in a row.

What would Auto Attack do in this situation?

Basic attacks (Light Thrust Heavy Thrust and Full Thrust) will become your auto attack

SO it now looks like this
(auto attack) Protect > Shock Spikes (auto attack ) > Skewer II > Feint (Auto attack)
7 button presses for a total of 6 actions.

Dealing with a mouse and K/B and pressing 1 2 3 4 5 1 is fine and dandy, but you aren't dealing with just keyboard gamers with this game. In the future You'll have PS3 users who will be complaining of this as they will use the controller as their #1 input.

Adding auto attack to create a less hectic system is the best middle ground solution for controller (PS3) users VS K/B mouse users.

You can use macros for buffs, when you press the macro button on the pad the position of the cursor is resetted so you get rid of most of the unnecessary movements.
Also as a Lancer I don't need all of my skills equipped all of the times (actually being able to equip everything you have is one of the biggest issues imho, but that's another topic) so I use to set my action bar in different ways for different occasions trying to lower to the minimum the movements.

For Instance on NMs I never use Feint, so there's no need to equip it. I usually equip only 2 or 3 we per NM, so my action bar looks like this:

Invigorate II
Full thrust - WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II

All the accuracy and attack buffs are on a singular macro, I put them in the middle so I can check their cool down, everything else is right next to Full thrust.

[ChiefCurrahee]

I don't know about you but this is how I do it at NM as a LNC:

Speed Surge II -> Invigorate II -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Macro 1 BR shout -> Keen Flurry -> Raging Strike -> Ferocity -> Hawk's Eye -> Macro 2 BR activate -> (Feint) -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (depends on what I used back in BR) -> (Feint) -> Full Thrust -> Full Thrust -> Skewer II -> (Feint) -> Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (If I didn't have to Feint)

That's my one cycle, depends on my Stamina available I would throw in more Stamina-less buff. The best part is I only use one bar.

Speed Surge II (1) Invigorate II (2) Full Thrust (3) Keen Flurry (4) Raging Strike (5) Ferocity (6) Hawk's Eye (7) Feint (8) Twisting Vice/Moon Rise II (9) Skewer II (0)

So you press: 1 2 3 3 (macro) 4 5 6 7 (macro) 8 3 3 9 8 3 3 0 8 9.

18 button presses for 18 actions +2 macro presses

With auto attack you would press 1 2 (auto attack) (auto attack) <macro> 4 5 6 7 <macro> 8 (auto attack) (auto attack) 9 8 (auto attack) (auto attack) 0 8 9

12 button presses + 2 macros

On a game pad it's a nightmare!
1 > 2 > 3 3 (macro) > 4 > 5 > 6 > 7 (macro) > 8 < < < < < 3 3 > > > > > > 9 < 8 < < < < < 3 3 > > > > > > >0 < < 8 > 9
52 button presses for 18 actions + 2 macro presses

with auto attack : (each slot number -1 because full thrust is taken out i.e. "4" becomes "3", "5" becomes "4" ect ect)

1 > 2 (auto attack) (auto attack) [macro] > 3 > 4 >5 > 6 [macro] > 7 (auto attack) (auto attack) > 8 < 7 (auto attack) (auto attack) > > 9 < < 7 > 9

25 button presses +2 macro presses

[ChiefCurrahee]

You can use macros for buffs, when you press the macro button on the pad the position of the cursor is resetted so you get rid of most of the unnecessary movements.
Also as a Lancer I don't need all of my skills equipped all of the times (actually being able to equip everything you have is one of the biggest issues imho, but that's another topic) so I use to set my action bar in different ways for different occasions trying to lower to the minimum the movements.

For Instance on NMs I never use Feint, so there's no need to equip it. I usually equip only 2 or 3 we per NM, so my action bar looks like this:

Invigorate II
Full thrust - WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II

All the accuracy and attack buffs are on a singular macro, I put them in the middle so I can check their cool down, everything else is right next to Full thrust.

I've been playing this game since alpha 1, I know how to play the game....

[Alcide]

I've been playing this game since alpha 1, I know how to play the game....

But it seems you don't know how to set the action and macro bar, because it's not a nightmare it's perfectly fine.

The only problem ppl are having with the lack out auto attack is the spam of normal attacks, wich clearly you're not doing so everything's fine

[ChiefCurrahee]

But it seems you don't know how to set the action and macro bar, because it's not a nightmare it's perfectly fine.

The only problem ppl are having with the lack out auto attack is the spam of normal attacks, wich clearly you're not doing so everything's fine

It's not about the spamming of abilities but the navigation of the action bar. Read the last few of my posts (because it seems you have not) and tell me everything is fine.

It takes nearly two times as many presses of a button to result in half as many actions! It's absurd!

to change between 2 actions it takes four button presses of a gamepad 1 <right> 2 <left> 1.
If one were an auto attack you would only press 1 button. (auto attack) "1" (auto attack)


by your example your action bar is set up like so:

Invigorate II
Full thrust - WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II

let say you start to engage a mob.

Invigorate II <down> Full Thrust Full Thrust Full Thrust > WS < Full Thrust > > WS > WS < < < Full Thrust < < Hawk's Eye < Ferocity II < < WS < < Full Thrust > WS.

Lets say thats the course of your fight.

you did 14 actions

On a game pad that translates to 31 button presses.

replace full thrust as an auto attack your action bar would look like this:

Invigorate II
WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II

You engage a mob.

Invigorate II <down> (auto attack | auto attack | auto attack) WS (auto attack) > > WS > WS (auto attack) > > > Hawke's eye < Ferocity II < < WS (auto attack) < WS

Your character took 14 actions ( 6 auto attacks, 8 inputted attacks) it took 19 presses of a gamepad button instead of 31.

19 VS 31! do that for 5 fights. do that for 10, Do that for a hour!

It's not about spamming actions, or having to spam the "1" button. It's about creating a less hectic navigation of the action bar. It creates less work for the player to have to constantly active. Less work doesn't mean slower combat or less actions taken. It gives the player a chance to set up for their next attack, breath a little between presses of a button.

If you read my initial post over again, my idea isn't slow paced battle. You can spam all the action you want as long as you have the TP and Stamina to do so. I'm just basically proposing that your TP building actions (basic attacks) are replaced by auto attack to free up the user of the chore that is navigating the action bar.

[Alcide]

I already read you posts ad as I said, the navigation is not a big deal if you set your actions and macros well

Now i'll show you my pattern:

fisrt buff's macro 2x full thrust; start br with full thrust; second buff's macro > WS > WS < < full thrust

Invigorate and Speed Surge on the first macro, all the other buffs on the second.

11 actions, 12 buttons pressed.

Also all of the movement are done during BR while I wait for the others to stack their skills, so i'm not even wasting time. But even if you have to navigate more in the action bar i can't see how it's stopping you from thinking what you have to do, you're just moving a cursor, it doesn't imply a big effort...
The auto attack a la FFXI/WoW/AION doesn't fit this game at all, it's just a useless dot.

[Reika]

There are quite a few more tactics involved than spamming 1 or 2 or whatever. I have learned that doing that only leaves me out of stamina for more important skills like Provoke, Sentinel, etc. Plus another good tactic to the current system is to start a battle regimen when you are nearly out of stamina, this lets your stamina bar's recover while others join the battle regimen.

Auto attack is unnecessary, Just adapt to the current system in place. It just needs improvements such as lag times and animation of attacks.