Auto attack: A complete battle system

[ChiefCurrahee]

This idea seem pretty much like the auto-attack system from FFXI, with the additional feature of being able to turn auto-attack off.

Please correct my ignorance if I am mistaken.

Your ignorance is forgiven.

Any auto attack system will resemble another auto attack system. FFXI / WoW / Aion / Rift.

In FFXI you had to auto attack 5-10 times (depending on gear and store TP) to be able to use 1 TP move.
Under FFXIV conditions you can use TP skills after a single attack.

As a mouse and K/B user the need to hit "1" to attack isn't much of an issue. But as soon as you pick up a gamepad you are very very busy scrolling through attacks to fire a TP ability then scroll through icons to end up at "basic attack" again.

Implementing an auto attack feature will free up the need to constantly be busy finding that one attack.

If people are worried about auto attack being a huge source of dmg or having people AFK and just auto attack mobs. Lower the attack rating on these basic attacks so they become purely TP generators and not DMG skills.
So after a single auto attack you can start to use your TP abilities.

Differnces between my idea for auto attack and FFXI for your enjoyment:
Mine:
Auto attack speed based on weapon type
Auto attacks generate TP
stamina governs the speed and number of TP skills you can use in a given time frame
TP allows you to use skills on demand
Auto attack continues while cued for battle regimen, however TP skills can't be used in this state.

FFXI:
Auto attack speed based on weapon delay
TP skills used once 100-300 TP is reached

[kukurumei]

Your ignorance is forgiven.

Any auto attack system will resemble another auto attack system. FFXI / WoW / Aion / Rift.

In FFXI you had to auto attack 5-10 times (depending on gear and store TP) to be able to use 1 TP move.
Under FFXIV conditions you can use TP skills after a single attack.

As a mouse and K/B user the need to hit "1" to attack isn't much of an issue. But as soon as you pick up a gamepad you are very very busy scrolling through attacks to fire a TP ability then scroll through icons to end up at "basic attack" again.

Implementing an auto attack feature will free up the need to constantly be busy finding that one attack.

If people are worried about auto attack being a huge source of dmg or having people AFK and just auto attack mobs. Lower the attack rating on these basic attacks so they become purely TP generators and not DMG skills.
So after a single auto attack you can start to use your TP abilities.

Differnces between my idea for auto attack and FFXI for your enjoyment:
Mine:
Auto attack speed based on weapon type
Auto attacks generate TP
stamina governs the speed and number of TP skills you can use in a given time frame
TP allows you to use skills on demand
Auto attack continues while cued for battle regimen, however TP skills can't be used in this state.

FFXI:
Auto attack speed based on weapon delay
TP skills used once 100-300 TP is reached

Mine has always been somewhat different

Separate every skill into 3 types.

Auto skills that will always work in battle at set time ex: light stab
Stamina skills that require stamina to use (spells, ranpart, etc)
TP skills that only require TP aka limitbreaks

[Uazet]

Your ignorance is forgiven.

Any auto attack system will resemble another auto attack system. FFXI / WoW / Aion / Rift.

In FFXI you had to auto attack 5-10 times (depending on gear and store TP) to be able to use 1 TP move.
Under FFXIV conditions you can use TP skills after a single attack.

As a mouse and K/B user the need to hit "1" to attack isn't much of an issue. But as soon as you pick up a gamepad you are very very busy scrolling through attacks to fire a TP ability then scroll through icons to end up at "basic attack" again.

Implementing an auto attack feature will free up the need to constantly be busy finding that one attack.

If people are worried about auto attack being a huge source of dmg or having people AFK and just auto attack mobs. Lower the attack rating on these basic attacks so they become purely TP generators and not DMG skills.
So after a single auto attack you can start to use your TP abilities.

Differnces between my idea for auto attack and FFXI for your enjoyment:
Mine:
Auto attack speed based on weapon type
Auto attacks generate TP
stamina governs the speed and number of TP skills you can use in a given time frame
TP allows you to use skills on demand
Auto attack continues while cued for battle regimen, however TP skills can't be used in this state.

FFXI:
Auto attack speed based on weapon delay
TP skills used once 100-300 TP is reached

I see the logic here indeed. However, part of the reason I enjoyed the auto-attack function in FFXI is because in each party you may get for example a samurai, or a thief, or a tank/mage of varying different skill levels. In this regard you would have players that can really play well and players who can't be bothered or play casually.

I personally worked hard in FFXI to become the best party player I could be and felt a sense of achievement from being appreciated by my fellow party members for performing well. My philosophy in many things is if you put the effort in (correct gear, clever macros, communicate tactics and battle info well, good response times to unfolding battle events) then you will enjoy the game more anyway.

I say leave the lazy players alone. It gives the community the freedom to be less than average, or be very successful like real life. It allows skilful players to shine. Because what's the main reasons you play MMO's for such a long period of time? Well that's easy - progression (storyline, new abilities), socialise and make friends and last but not least, for a large sense of achievement.

[EDIT]

Oh thought I'd add my 2-pence here as well to save me writing another post.

I for one am in favour of auto-attack. Here are my reasons:

1. When attacking a creature, if the battle changes suddenly, I have time to use another/different ability than I was going to use. I could mention a long list of various different situations here. I won't mention the frustrating lag between attacks, I think this point has been raised already.

2. Another would be the amount of time to gain TP for TP abilities. 3 hits tend to be the average for gaining 1000TP which is the average needed for using most TP abilities. (Or 2 hits for a 500TP ability and a Second Wind for example). I think FFXIV would benefit greatly from auto-attack in this regard.

3. Third of all, it would speed up battles and add somewhat more structure to battles allowing for more strategy and skill (and the timing would still be there). With the wider array of skills you can pick from different classes, it stands to reason that the abilities you pick are going to be more useful and used more and battles would still be action packed even with addition of auto-attack. It just leaves out a minor TP building attack to focus on more important battle commands.

4. With your hands more free, you can relay battle information and strategy between your party members easier and keep a lot more combat efficiency.

Having said all that, I think that having had 2 manual attack modes for over six months from release, SE should allow players to switch between manual attack mode to auto-attack mode. I know from experience that when you give a consumer something for a period of time and then take it away, you lose a vast proportion of consumer trust as opposed to if you hadn't offered it in the first place.

I think it's important for SE to decide carefully here so as not to lose any more consumer trust.

[Motoyuki]

Uhm currently I'm killing as many NM as I can, none of us is spamming anything (not even the healers...) and we managed to kill the Great Buffalo (roaming one) in 7 minutes... do i have to say anything else?

You don't have to say anything else. Thats your style of play and what your doing currently is up to you. I'm not hating or anything. I've been playing since early December, not as long as most but what can I do? Currently, for most of the DoW (Pugilist, Lancer, even Marauder) Its honestly just a spam fest. Spam includes everything from attacking to skills. Theres no planning, barely any strategy involved from fight to fight. I'm supporting the auto attack function myself cause not only will there be more time to use skills and type (for those who don't use vent or any other form of voice chat) its the only way to form strategies and speak to teammates. Can't exactly do that if your attacking (DoT is as important as any Spike damage) at the moment. If we want this game to have a deep and fulfilling battle system, spamming of the light attack has to go. I'm not saying everyone does spam, but I'd say a good 80% does; which pretty much negates having all those interesting abilities. IMHO, Auto-attack will bring out the best in this battle system.

[Alcide]

You don't have to say anything else. Thats your style of play and what your doing currently is up to you. I'm not hating or anything. I've been playing since early December, not as long as most but what can I do? Currently, for most of the DoW (Pugilist, Lancer, even Marauder) Its honestly just a spam fest. Spam includes everything from attacking to skills. Theres no planning, barely any strategy involved from fight to fight. I'm supporting the auto attack function myself cause not only will there be more time to use skills and type (for those who don't use vent or any other form of voice chat) its the only way to form strategies and speak to teammates. Can't exactly do that if your attacking (DoT is as important as any Spike damage) at the moment. If we want this game to have a deep and fulfilling battle system, spamming of the light attack has to go. I'm not saying everyone does spam, but I'd say a good 80% does; which pretty much negates having all those interesting abilities. IMHO, Auto-attack will bring out the best in this battle system.

You're forgetting this part

"EDIT: oh and talking about guildleves, right now I'm ranking up archer, usually my pattern is hit multishot x2, hawk's eye, raging strike, normal attack x1, ferocity, weapon skill. Usually the mob is dead at this point, is it spammy? do you think i'm not doing my job? "

This is about archer, but my main is lancer and i playid a bit of thaumaturge too, i've never spammed anything with any of these classes unless, i've always had a good time while grinding/doing leves and i've socialized with many people.

The point is this battle system allows you to get to r50 spamming normal attacks, but it's just your choice and if you do it you're not giving your best and definitely you're not playing your class as it's supposed to be.
You can't blame the devs if you decide to play in the most boring way.

[Motoyuki]

You're forgetting this part

"EDIT: oh and talking about guildleves, right now I'm ranking up archer, usually my pattern is hit multishot x2, hawk's eye, raging strike, normal attack x1, ferocity, weapon skill. Usually the mob is dead at this point, is it spammy? do you think i'm not doing my job? "

This is about archer, but my main is lancer and i playid a bit of thaumaturge too, i've never spammed anything with any of these classes unless, i've always had a good time while grinding/doing leves and i've socialized with many people.

The point is this battle system allows you to get to r50 spamming normal attacks, but it's just your choice and if you do it you're not giving your best and definitely you're not playing your class as it's supposed to be.
You can't blame the devs if you decide to play in the most boring way.

I didn't forget about any part. The part your wrote about your Archer has nothing to do about my post. I stated 3 classes that are notorious for spamming. Archer wasn't included. Honestly, I don't care about your achievements. I'm stating the general population of FFXIV. Think outside the box and maybe you'll see where the people that want auto-attack is coming from. As for, this is my last post here. I'm not going to argue with someone who can only see something from his point of view.

[Alcide]

I didn't forget about any part. The part your wrote about your Archer has nothing to do about my post. I stated 3 classes that are notorious for spamming. Archer wasn't included. Honestly, I don't care about your achievements. I'm stating the general population of FFXIV. Think outside the box and maybe you'll see where the people that want auto-attack is coming from. As for, this is my last post here. I'm not going to argue with someone who can only see something from his point of view.

o.O

Obviousely I wasn't showing off my achievements, i couldn't care less, I was just showing an exemple of how the battle system is not spammy and as I said, my main is lancer (wich you have mentioned) and i've never spammed at all, but i won't show you my lancer pattern because you wouldn't care.

By the way I'm not seeing everything from my point of view, but from those of everyone that's still playing and enjoyng the game, coz everyone i know in game is absolutely against auto attack, so as I've said before, those that want auto attack are playing little/just started playing/quitted after rank 10 so no, I really can't see the game from their point of view, I don't want to and couldn't care less coz you're trying to change something you know nothing about.

[Vanguard319]

I didn't forget about any part. The part your wrote about your Archer has nothing to do about my post. I stated 3 classes that are notorious for spamming. Archer wasn't included. Honestly, I don't care about your achievements. I'm stating the general population of FFXIV. Think outside the box and maybe you'll see where the people that want auto-attack is coming from. As for, this is my last post here. I'm not going to argue with someone who can only see something from his point of view.

You mentioned Marauder, I've been leveling that one recently, I almost never spam light attack, instead I take full advantage of the job's AoEs and steadfast, often fighting multiple mobs like the job was intended. You mentioned Pugilist, I have an r24 pgl, with that job, I alternate between light strike and heavy strike, and use pummel on occasion, the only skill I tend to spam is haymaker (yes, you read correctly, I spam the conditional ws) since I tend to evade most attacks. Finally you mention Lancer, I have a r25 Lnc, for that one I alternate between light and heavy thrust, using feint whenever I miss. If something links, I will position myself accordingly and use Pierce to hit both mobs at once. In parties I will use skills like Comrade-in-arms and life surge to support my party and increase damage through more accurate attacks and increased TP gain.

You have stated that these three jobs are notorious for just spamming thier default attacks, but it sounds like you know very little about actually playing any of them.

[pool842]

You're forgetting this part

"EDIT: oh and talking about guildleves, right now I'm ranking up archer, usually my pattern is hit multishot x2, hawk's eye, raging strike, normal attack x1, ferocity, weapon skill. Usually the mob is dead at this point, is it spammy? do you think i'm not doing my job? "

This is about archer, but my main is lancer and i playid a bit of thaumaturge too, i've never spammed anything with any of these classes unless, i've always had a good time while grinding/doing leves and i've socialized with many people.

The point is this battle system allows you to get to r50 spamming normal attacks, but it's just your choice and if you do it you're not giving your best and definitely you're not playing your class as it's supposed to be.
You can't blame the devs if you decide to play in the most boring way.

so everyone on this post do me a favor equip a bow and spam attack keeping in mind the actual time it takes for each arrow to shoot and hit he enemy... now start a stop watch and use raging strike then eagle eye then pucture 2 or barrage..... the time is 90% the same dps wise so spamming attack just about does the same as waiting for 2 buffs and a special to go off. SOOOOO there FOR THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS SPAMMYYY. god.... reading these forums with no evidence behind what anybody says is just ridiculas....

[MariyaShidou]

so everyone on this post do me a favor equip a bow and spam attack keeping in mind the actual time it takes for each arrow to shoot and hit he enemy... now start a stop watch and use raging strike then eagle eye then pucture 2 or barrage..... the time is 90% the same dps wise so spamming attack just about does the same as waiting for 2 buffs and a special to go off. SOOOOO there FOR THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS SPAMMYYY. god.... reading these forums with no evidence behind what anybody says is just ridiculas....

You haven't played ARC. Who the heck would want to Raging Strike and Hawk's Eye on Puncture 2? Multishot/Trifurcate + RS + HE = 6 times the damage of a normal shot, or 9 times if they all crit. This goes to show how ridiculous your post is.