Auto attack: A complete battle system

[Linnear]

The difference is the volume of damage that can be done without instruction, if you can take 100% of a low level mobs health without scripting anything other than a single attack command, it is harder to scan for bots by parsing the commands given, it basically makes the admins job easier if you have to hit the same button over and over.

In your own example if your listening for footsteps, it is better to put your room at the end of the hall, as it gives you more steps to listen for.

It is a good point and brings the only posative I can see about not having an auto attack in question, but it does not respond to either of my inquiries.

[kukurumei]

The difference is the volume of damage that can be done without instruction, if you can take 100% of a low level mobs health without scripting anything other than a single attack command, it is harder to scan for bots by parsing the commands given, it basically makes the admins job easier if you have to hit the same button over and over.

In your own example if your listening for footsteps, it is better to put your room at the end of the hall, as it gives you more steps to listen for.

It is a good point and brings the only posative I can see about not having an auto attack in question, but it does not respond to either of my inquiries.

That's utterly stupid. because first of all, easy enemies aka farming enemies, people would script a macro that put 1 x10 anyway. No one smart or stupid farms with both hands or eyes on the screen.

secondly, that makes it even harder to catch botters because it would increase your false positives 1000%. Thus making it harder for admins to catch more botters because for every one you get wrong, you let another one sneak away.

And by your excuse, listening to more foot steps means that every echo of people walking would lead to more powerful equipment to be run 24/7, need more maintenance, and need more guards to constantly check the trip wire. And most likely alert any real criminals of your security in the process. How many times would that security trigger a day? Dozens, hundreds. Walking around a hallway, what about sneakers, or boots, or double backing...insanely illogical.

By the same line of irrational thinking it's better to have auto attack to catch bots because if a bot decides auto attack is enough to win the fight, they will always do one action, which a normal person even afk will have deviations in pattern.

Less actions actually make it easier to catch botters because you have an easier time filtering and finding patterns.

In the end it's the most naive stupid excuse, and if it's true, then no wonder bots roam the wild so easily.

A better way to stop bots, is and always will be community initiative, follow by pattern matching or otherwise statistics, then followed by a sting operation.

Aka, real police work. You find a bot(s) based on community query, you observe it's patterns(day and time, length of hours, movement style, reaction speed), then you run it through a statistically pattern matcher, and then when you're confident you sting all the matches simultaneously before botters realize the sting and change their scripts.

Anyone, anywhere will tell you if you want to find a link between thousands of traits, you don't want to find the most generic, you find the most specific.

If even a tiny bit is ever related to the reason no Auto attack was conceived, people needs to get fired fast. Developers who can't realize their own pitfalls needs to be replaced before they caused other problems in the system.

[ChiefCurrahee]

though it's my opinion I feel that the benefits of an auto attack system far out way the cons presented in this thread.

aside from auto attack freeing up player input for the most basic of attacks, It can make way for gear player enhancements. Such as low damage weapons having higher rate of attack speed, like a previous post said.

On the line of defense people are taking on botters. They are already established in game. Adding auto attack will not bring more to the table but maybe give SE an easier time finding who is botting since they already have developed technology based around an auto attack system with FFXI.

The issues of UI navigation while using a game pad, just isn't functional or fun for that matter. Having to press left 4 times to get back to your "light stab" command to hold down right to get to your TP move, to press left twice to issue your "shield" command. It's fine for a fight or two, but play for an hour and you get tired. When the PS3 version is released I think if they stick with this battle system this will be the number one complaint.

For all intents and purposes we are in a second open beta phase. This is the time to try new systems, to go out on a limb and see if something works. The PS3 release is the 2nd chance for FFXIV that no other MMO will get. So lets be willing to try something out to see if it works instead of crashing and burning a 2nd time.

Edit:
They have made changes to the battle system since Alpha which was a GOOD thing. FFXIV's battle system was by in large inspired or copied from a game called White Knight Chronicles. A PS3 game which reviewers bashed the combat system for being slow (FFXIV alpha version) boring and tedious.
Now the difference between WKC and FFXIV is the speed. It's still boring and tedious.

Maybe we can take care of the tedious by having your basic attacks issued as Auto attacks, and then spice up the TP and skills to get rid of the boring.

[Linnear]

Thanks Chief good call, remove the boring spice up the combat system and try some new things beucase they do not have the player base to say this is a real game yet.

[Shikyo]

This is gettin annoying

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPAM ATTACK

Is it really that hard to understand? How have you even thought that a battle system could be designed around spamming attack? but most of all why at rank 12 you think you have enough knowledge to say something?

EDIT: I'm sorry if I'm rude, I don't have anything against you, but I'm getting really tired of all those ppl not playing or playing a little or that just started playing and that think this game is so broken that is open for everyone's creative mind.

You don't like it from the roots? give up playing, there are tons of mmos you'll enjoy much better.

everything u said is bs i do play the game and have played xi and the battle system in this is not a good one so if in your eyes exp gives u the right to have a opinion then i can give mine. FF fans have a right to say what they do and dont like rather you played for a day or since the game came out ppl know what they do and dont like and thats what these forums allow ppl to do voice thoes opinions, so shove that bs back where it came. I played xi for years and stalked this game from day one and if its wrong its just wrong, if u think nothing is wrong with the game when its back up play it as is and enjoy it as much as you can because even SE knows as it is now isnt good enough buddy so dont bash others for knowing that as well.... auto attack would be a great benefit to this game, time will tell if SE takes good notes and are actually listening.

If you dont like the fact that ppl were giving a chance and stage to speak there minds how about YOU go else where .......

[sylvestew]

Why does it matter if they put auto attack in if they give you the option to turn it off

[OmegaNovaios]

This is gettin annoying

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SPAM ATTACK

Is it really that hard to understand? How have you even thought that a battle system could be designed around spamming attack? but most of all why at rank 12 you think you have enough knowledge to say something?

EDIT: I'm sorry if I'm rude, I don't have anything against you, but I'm getting really tired of all those ppl not playing or playing a little or that just started playing and that think this game is so broken that is open for everyone's creative mind.

You don't like it from the roots? give up playing, there are tons of mmos you'll enjoy much better.

You have to SPAM if you want to do the most damage possible within a time limit. This is why it's an issue. It isn't wise to emphasize the most inferior action in the game to be be extremely concentrated on and the most effective path to dealing the most damage possible.

Also the game is so easy that it doesn't matter how you kill a mob, making it the easiest path as well. Thus what is the advantage to killing it another way?

[OmegaNovaios]

Why does it matter if they put auto attack in if they give you the option to turn it off

So you don't disturb mobs that are being controlled with a crowd control effect such as sleep and don't have to disengage/turn your back to the mob like in FFXI.

[Linnear]

I dislike the spam vs non spam arguement, hitting 1111111 or 1511251 is basically the same thing from keyboard perspective. for arguements sake lets just assume that hitting 4 different buttons provides more tactics and is more fun than hitting the same one 4 times and it is also more usefull.

What sucks about it is that for game pad users is uncomfotable and annyoing. They increased the pace of entering combat commands, but the problem with that is for gamepad play they might have went overboard. Yes maccros and such can help reduce the command load but game pads still suffer from the current system. Like is said before hitting 1111 or 1451 makes a BIG difference to game pad players. If you remove the need to hit 1 then it becomes ... or 45. What you will end up with actually better beasue it will ecourage PC players to hit more things then there 1,(regardless if it is a good idea or not) and lets game pad players a chance to enjoy the game instead of cursing at their controler because they want provoke instead of light slash.

Also if you want to put in uto attack you NEED a way to shut if off quickly and efficiently on controller to prevent breaking CC. Although I have seen some games where you can hit something CCed for x damage before it breaks, but the damage is not actually removed from their hp, Basically they gain a small SS when CC them so a stray auto attack will NOT breka them. Not sure how much I like it but it is n option as well. It does work well if you need to CC 1 out of 3 mobs and you have an AOE attack that hits 3 targets and little room to manouver.

Also noone has argued agains't the lose of weapon delay and gear selections you lose by taking out auto attack yet. Is there no intelligent comments on how you can reconsilliate this loss ?

[OmegaNovaios]

I dislike the spam vs non spam arguement, hitting 1111111 or 1511251 is basically the same thing from keyboard perspective. for arguements sake lets just assume that hitting 4 different buttons provides more tactics and is more fun than hitting the same one 4 times and it is also more usefull.

It is the same thing if you compare how many times you hit the keys. The difference is wouldn't you rather use other skills in battle rather than just the same one. I mean right now you spend at least half your time playing the game hitting the regular attack action if you are a melee class. Some people are so far focused on this concept that they won't even attempt to perform battle regimens, which is a great deal of players and I doubt they come to these forums because they don't see any tactical play in MMOs so why would they even consider wanting any?

Now with an auto attack you still push just as many keys, but it isn't time spent worrying about inferior attacks. You are going to be using all the other actions you have from your collection. Wouldn't you rather spend all your time using many different actions rather than only half your time. Technically that's half of your time focused on something inferior and half of your time spent being much more tactical. Yes there are tactics in choosing to use regular attacks so much but this is overall very inferior and basic compared to what you could be doing with more time spent on other things.

We might even see battle regimen being using by people other than extremely well co-operated groups like a hardcore EG ls party. Maybe some day it might even occur in behests.