[Cash Shop Idea] Game Time Token

[MomomiMomi]

I am categorically opposed to selling any item through the cash shop that can be resold in-game for gil, especially an item that is a 'game time' item.

I'm of the opposite mind. I believe that everything that is in the game should be obtainable within the game. If that means buying cash shop items from other players for gil, then that is what I support.

Of course you do, you have a very healthy bank balance, this would enable you to play for free, so of course you support it.

It's healthy enough. I've stopped trying to make gil for well over a year though. That part of the game is, quite simply, dead to me. Which is a shame because it was one of my favorite parts of the game. But there's just no point to it anymore.

[Vaer]

This isnt "just a thing from wow we want"

Its a possible and realistic solution to the botting problem

Maybe or maybe not. On wow I wouldn't be surprised if there are people that bot farm gold just to buy tokens with. Herbalism bots everywhere in Legion.

[Kosmos992k]

This is difficult to respond to because it frames things very vaguely. You say "at the expense of others" without saying who exactly is facing this expense, nor what this expense is. I'd like to better understand exactly who you expect to be harmed and how.

I didn't say anyone would be harmed. I said it was about personal enrichment at the expense of others. Huge difference.

This is a subscription based game and RMT is completely prohibited in this game. Suggesting an RMT option seems to me to go against that very simple and clear rule. Subscription games are different to F2P games because everyone pays a subscription. In essence everyone has a stake in behaving to some extent since they put real money into it. If people can in effect play the game for free because they can use the gil they generate through their normal course of play to pay for game time purchased by someone else, they do not have the same stake in the game, and in fact their only real 'stake' is making more and more gil to finance their subscription.

This request is not about gifting time to friends - which I would support. Instead, it's about creating a mechanism for some players to maximize their gil in game through real money purchases in the Mogstation sold to other players who are wealthy in-game. It's RMT pure and simple. It's against one of the basic rules of the game. Just on principle it is wrong due to that.

It does also exploit those willing to use their game time to generate gil in order to purchase more game time because it funnels their gil to other players to lazy to earn the gil themselves. Making it a pay to win of sorts for those spending real $$ on game time tokens, and they do that by exploiting the players with the gil in-game.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm of the opposite mind. I believe that everything that is in the game should be obtainable within the game. If that means buying cash shop items from other players for gil, then that is what I support.

This game time token would be a completely different sort of in-game item though. It's not like the other in game items. I mean, I disagree with the idea of being able to trade/sell cash shop items in-game for gil, as I am sure is obvious. So I disagree with you. But I can see some logic to an all or nothing approach. If it's to be an all or nothing, then I say nothing, and close the Mogstation optional item purchases immediately.

It's healthy enough. I've stopped trying to make gil for well over a year though. That part of the game is, quite simply, dead to me. Which is a shame because it was one of my favorite parts of the game. But there's just no point to it anymore.

I understand, and I do apologize for what is a cheap shot.

I knew you were a very active omni-crafter at one time and know that can generate huge amounts of gil. To me this idea is very squarely aimed at letting people who want to make gil in game - without doing what you did - spend $$ in the real world to do so. I dislike that idea. I do respect the ability of many players to craft their way to billions, even if I am a bit envious of it because I really don't have sufficient playing time to match that earning capability...but no matter what people say about market board prices, the point is that you earned the gil you acquired through your effort, and that needs to be respected.

People should earn their stuff, and if they don't want to earn it, then they should deal with the consequences of that.

[CocoPuff]

In GW2 is pretty much killed bots, it's different because GW2 has no sub, but it allows you to trade real currency for in game cash.

This. Why do the token thing at all? Just jump straight to the issue and allow people to buy 10 million gil for $20 (about what it's going for, as a quick Google search indicates). Gil sellers and bots will be gone the next day.

[RobbieH]

The most recent RMT action report banned 20,000 accounts for RMT activity - not advertising. It would seem that SE was able to trace things better thanks to all the enhanced reporting of spams and take out a large number of bot accounts

I don't think GMs could ban so many accounts that fast, it might be they developed an automatic system.

[LineageRazor]

This. Why do the token thing at all? Just jump straight to the issue and allow people to buy 10 million gil for $20 (about what it's going for, as a quick Google search indicates). Gil sellers and bots will be gone the next day.

The trouble with this is that this is essentially printing money. Do you know what happens when you dump a whole load of additional money into an economy? The value of money becomes smaller. Quickly. It's called hyperinflation, and there are numerous, tragic real-life examples of why it's a terrible, terrible idea. Things that you used to be able to buy for a thousand gil now cost a million. The token solution folks are proposing in this thread does not work that way, because at no point along the way is money being created in an abnormal fashion. Players earn gil the same way they always have. Players who buy tokens with real life money then sell those tokens for in-game gil - but this does not generate new gil, it simply passes around the gil that already exists. Hyperinflation does not occur.

[RobbieH]

The trouble with this is that this is essentially printing money. Do you know what happens when you dump a whole load of additional money into an economy? The value of money becomes smaller. Quickly. It's called hyperinflation, and there are numerous, tragic real-life examples of why it's a terrible, terrible idea. Things that you used to be able to buy for a thousand gil now cost a million. The token solution folks are proposing in this thread does not work that way, because at no point along the way is money being created in an abnormal fashion. Players earn gil the same way they always have. Players who buy tokens with real life money then sell those tokens for in-game gil - but this does not generate new gil, it simply passes around the gil that already exists. Hyperinflation does not occur.

GW2 proves otherwise, the price of ingame items even went up, and keep going up.

[TaleraRistain]

This works great in WoW. Square will either want to set a fixed price or develop something to keep the price reasonable like WoW does. They'll also want to limit the number that can be purchased within a given period.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

GW2 proves otherwise, the price of ingame items even went up, and keep going up.

That's not necesserilly due to the 'token' system.

There's many other factors to consider.
The amount of faucets vs the amount of sinks among those...


Adding straight money to gil would be adding a faucet without a coresponding sink.
Thus inflation.

Adding a token to trade with other players however just moves the gil around, and in the cases of market tax actually removes some from the system, making it a sink.