[Cash Shop Idea] Game Time Token

[Kosmos992k]

[I]FFXIV Tokens provide players with a convenient, secure way to exchange gil for game time directly through the in-game Market.

Let me just complete your thought here;

...(and now the unsaid portion): a convenient, secure way to exchange $$ for gil through the Mogstation and in-game Market - aka officially sanctioned RMT.

No. Definitely not.

I am categorically opposed to selling any item through the cash shop that can be resold in-game for gil, especially an item that is a 'game time' item.

This idea is explicitly an RMT mechanism since you are allowing players to spend $$ in the cash shop in exchange for gil in game.

Absolutely not.

do you even read?

You are asking for sanctioned RMT. Crysta exist already as non currency options for purchasing game time or optional services such as retainers.

All you are doing with this suggestion of yours is legitimizing RMT.

[MomomiMomi]

I am categorically opposed to selling any item through the cash shop that can be resold in-game for gil, especially an item that is a 'game time' item.

I'm of the opposite mind. I believe that everything that is in the game should be obtainable within the game. If that means buying cash shop items from other players for gil, then that is what I support.

Of course you do, you have a very healthy bank balance, this would enable you to play for free, so of course you support it.

It's healthy enough. I've stopped trying to make gil for well over a year though. That part of the game is, quite simply, dead to me. Which is a shame because it was one of my favorite parts of the game. But there's just no point to it anymore.

[Kosmos992k]

I'm of the opposite mind. I believe that everything that is in the game should be obtainable within the game. If that means buying cash shop items from other players for gil, then that is what I support.

This game time token would be a completely different sort of in-game item though. It's not like the other in game items. I mean, I disagree with the idea of being able to trade/sell cash shop items in-game for gil, as I am sure is obvious. So I disagree with you. But I can see some logic to an all or nothing approach. If it's to be an all or nothing, then I say nothing, and close the Mogstation optional item purchases immediately.

It's healthy enough. I've stopped trying to make gil for well over a year though. That part of the game is, quite simply, dead to me. Which is a shame because it was one of my favorite parts of the game. But there's just no point to it anymore.

I understand, and I do apologize for what is a cheap shot.

I knew you were a very active omni-crafter at one time and know that can generate huge amounts of gil. To me this idea is very squarely aimed at letting people who want to make gil in game - without doing what you did - spend $$ in the real world to do so. I dislike that idea. I do respect the ability of many players to craft their way to billions, even if I am a bit envious of it because I really don't have sufficient playing time to match that earning capability...but no matter what people say about market board prices, the point is that you earned the gil you acquired through your effort, and that needs to be respected.

People should earn their stuff, and if they don't want to earn it, then they should deal with the consequences of that.

[LineageRazor]

This. Why do the token thing at all? Just jump straight to the issue and allow people to buy 10 million gil for $20 (about what it's going for, as a quick Google search indicates). Gil sellers and bots will be gone the next day.

The trouble with this is that this is essentially printing money. Do you know what happens when you dump a whole load of additional money into an economy? The value of money becomes smaller. Quickly. It's called hyperinflation, and there are numerous, tragic real-life examples of why it's a terrible, terrible idea. Things that you used to be able to buy for a thousand gil now cost a million. The token solution folks are proposing in this thread does not work that way, because at no point along the way is money being created in an abnormal fashion. Players earn gil the same way they always have. Players who buy tokens with real life money then sell those tokens for in-game gil - but this does not generate new gil, it simply passes around the gil that already exists. Hyperinflation does not occur.

[RobbieH]

The trouble with this is that this is essentially printing money. Do you know what happens when you dump a whole load of additional money into an economy? The value of money becomes smaller. Quickly. It's called hyperinflation, and there are numerous, tragic real-life examples of why it's a terrible, terrible idea. Things that you used to be able to buy for a thousand gil now cost a million. The token solution folks are proposing in this thread does not work that way, because at no point along the way is money being created in an abnormal fashion. Players earn gil the same way they always have. Players who buy tokens with real life money then sell those tokens for in-game gil - but this does not generate new gil, it simply passes around the gil that already exists. Hyperinflation does not occur.

GW2 proves otherwise, the price of ingame items even went up, and keep going up.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

GW2 proves otherwise, the price of ingame items even went up, and keep going up.

That's not necesserilly due to the 'token' system.

There's many other factors to consider.
The amount of faucets vs the amount of sinks among those...


Adding straight money to gil would be adding a faucet without a coresponding sink.
Thus inflation.

Adding a token to trade with other players however just moves the gil around, and in the cases of market tax actually removes some from the system, making it a sink.

[HPDelron]

GW2 proves otherwise, the price of ingame items even went up, and keep going up.

These games always have inflation since the money generated by killing monsters, turning quests and selling loot to NPCs always outstrips money being removed from the system by things like transportation and repair fees. Unless you move to a zero-sum NPC economy prices go up quickly, period. In fact it's reasonable to expect that 3 years from now in order to have the same buying power of 100-gil today in 3 years you might need to have as much as 125 gil (inflation tends to be rather high in MMOs). However with a money printing system like this, the rate of inflation would be staggering. We're not talking about a given super-popular item going from 1mil-1.5mil over the course of year.

We're talking about common item like a Rank 5 Materia going from 100k->4 mil over the course of a month.

Tokens really wouldn't do this. You might see more price volatility since savers wouldn't be sitting on tons of gil. But nothing like 100k->4 mil in a month.

[RobbieH]

snip

If you people think Tokens are going to stop RMT and/or bots you're insane.

Also i know it's an example, but no way V materia will go from 100k to 4m (unless someone thinks that by buying every cheap materia can resell for 10 times more at this point), we're going for the next expansion, people who raid since Creator came out are maxed or almost there (mainly thanks to tokens), the price of the V materias won't go back to millions, VI materia will probably come with SB, V will be the IV of HW in SB, did IV cost millions anytime during HW? No.

The token system is bad because:

- People who have accumulated Gil over time and can't make much gil and buy a Token -> out of Gil, where do they turn? Are they going to buy a Token to sell in game? What was the point of buying it in game then to begin with? So they'll either have to deal with being out of gil or will turn to RMT.

- Rich people can play the game for free.

I also find funny people worried about inflation when there's people in the game who buy every single mat in the market at 100% and sell for 1000%+, especially when a new relic requires crafted stuff, or simply new Crafting recipes.

Let's create a scenario here:

Let's say Token conversion is 20€ for 10M, and i buy the token so i can make some in game gil.

Item X costs 10k per stack, new recipes come out, or new relic that requires those items, snipers already bought almost every stack unless very expensive after they read patch notes.

Item X stacks now costs 2m each, now please explain me how would i benefit from wanting to buy a Token so i could make Gil in-game? I'm curious.

I bet the Token price will also skyrocket to match the market prices.