Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

We have that now with MCH/BRD. And most bards won't even play Foes.

And SMN with E4E/Virus... BLM with Lethargy/apocastasis/E4E...

Honestly, with the 'DPS comes first' meta that's so prevalent within the community, no one cares about support, just stopping power.

[Sarcatica]

And SMN with E4E/Virus... BLM with Lethargy/apocastasis/E4E...

Honestly, with the 'DPS comes first' meta that's so prevalent within the community, no one cares about support, just stopping power.

I disagree. It's not even the meta that is wrong. It's the players' skill and mentality. And it's the majority of the community that is at fault. They don't even take the time to read tooltips, like what, Foes reduce your damage as BRD? The DPS meta is not to be blamed when most of these players do 3 digits DPS which is so horrible and to think that now all DPS is capable of doing 2k+dps in Savage. I was in this Sophia EX clear party and we got 2 tank busters before add phase, all 4 DPS are well below my damage by a huge margin. That's a huge problem that is inherently from the player's skills, and not the meta. How do you blame the DPS meta when most of these players trying to clear contents do abysmal damage? It doesn't add up. Is pressing buttons really that hard?

I don't even know how these people get as low as 3digit DPS, DPS and OT alike . It's as if they aren't even using their combos, it's just appalling at this point. Or using macro which is terribad?

EDIT: nice DPS there.

[Frowny]

Foes reduce your damage as BRD?

Not to nitpick, but Foes doesn't; only Army's and Mage's do and Foes is a pure DPS gain in most cases at the expense of your MP. Hence my extreme dislike of bards....

[Sarcatica]

Not to nitpick, but Foes doesn't; only Army's and Mage's do and Foes is a pure DPS gain in most cases at the expense of your MP. Hence my extreme dislike of bards....

I know it doesn't, I was poking at players who didn't read tooltips and claimed Foes reduced their damage and thus didn't want to use it. All these has happened a lot in the game so far, nothing much you can do when most players aren't improving themselves and a huge chunk of these players don't want to be pointed out for doing low DPS which actually makes runs significantly slower and even worse in harder contents, DPS check seems to be a common theme that most people aren't too fond of.

[Frowny]

I know it doesn't, I was poking at players who didn't read tooltips and claimed Foes reduced their damage and thus didn't want to use it. All these has happened a lot in the game so far, nothing much you can do when most players aren't improving themselves and a huge chunk of these players don't want to be pointed out for doing low DPS which actually makes runs significantly slower and even worse in harder contents, DPS check seems to be a common theme that most people aren't too fond of.

Very true. And having played DRG/BRD/BLM it is great fun calling them out (especially the bards... they have support but often refuse to use it).

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

snip

Uh... You're gonna have to explain the joke, I don't really get it.

[ADVSS]

possibly they can bake in damage buffs with rotations, ie disembowel in the ct combo etc. make dancing edge the secon part of aoelian, idk.
to the drg tanking lost city, i had a similar experience on my monk, when a tank left i ended up tanking the entire dungeon by spamming aoes uand such, it wasnt easy but it was managable. it kind of sucks that potd has taught us that tanks are useful only if a healer is present, otherwise another dps is better

[Shurrikhan]

possibly they can bake in damage buffs with rotations, ie disembowel in the ct combo etc. make dancing edge the secon part of aoelian, idk.
to the drg tanking lost city, i had a similar experience on my monk, when a tank left i ended up tanking the entire dungeon by spamming aoes uand such, it wasnt easy but it was managable. it kind of sucks that potd has taught us that tanks are useful only if a healer is present, otherwise another dps is better

Wait what? Disembowel IS the second part of the CT combo, and making Dancing Edge the second part of Aeolian Edge (replacing Gust Blade) would cheese almost all rotational thought in NIN dps.

And what sucks about finding a new meta for your irregular conditions (killing it before it reaches you, split tanking, and kiting, in the case of 4-DPS PotD)? I prefer to be able to the situation and make something new and interesting out of it than to just sit hesitant because you don't have your role quota.

(And heck, I rather enjoy Monk tanking, especially if I don't have to worry about any else's positional dps. If there's another melee with me... then I typically prefer Dragoon for tanking on a DPS class, or just having the party gradually figure out how to split tank and make the most out of Cure III and HoTs.)

I disagree. It's not even the meta that is wrong. It's the players' skill and mentality.

That. Exactly that.
And it's not even just the dps people fail to figure out. Kiting? Covering for squishier members? Mob gathering? Stunning key targets? oGCD debuffs? Tracking allied CDs? Not so much.
Hell, soft-swap tanking to keep up CD coverage on boss strikes? Nope; would rather dedicate an OT to wasting their toolkit or, at best, spending it on triple Fell Cleaves.

Very true. And having played DRG/BRD/BLM it is great fun calling them out (especially the bards... they have support but often refuse to use it).

Admittedly, I'm less likely to use it until my opener is done if I can't use it pre-pull (see no-countdown pulls) and there combined magic damage is considerably less than mine. In a heavy caster comp, though, I'd happily repop it on a third bar of mana to sync with their cooldowns if need be. Just a matter of payoff vs. butthurt (from tanks running from the edge of the arena, without prior indication, pulling the moment the last guy enters the room).

[Sarcatica]

Hell, woft-swap tanking to keep up CD coverage on boss strikes? Nope; would rather dedicate an OT to wasting their toolkit or, at best, spending it on triple Fell Cleaves.

This one depends on encounters actually. Most of the times though, a DRK/PLD can take hits for themselves and it only makes sense to do so if you are competent enough and are also into getting extra DPS through procs from Shield Swipes and Reprisal/Blood Price. This excludes mechanics that forces tank swap ofc.

[Sarcatica]

possibly they can bake in damage buffs with rotations, ie disembowel in the ct combo etc. make dancing edge the secon part of aoelian, idk.
to the drg tanking lost city, i had a similar experience on my monk, when a tank left i ended up tanking the entire dungeon by spamming aoes uand such, it wasnt easy but it was managable. it kind of sucks that potd has taught us that tanks are useful only if a healer is present, otherwise another dps is better

But having a tank makes dungeons easier though because tank is designed to take hits more than anything else. DPS will require more healings than tank as well. PotD is in this spot where you can solo it just fine, because as long as you don't tank too many mobs, nothing ever hits so hard and you have pomanders to aid you inside. I'd expect (I hope) new PotD at 150++ floor will require some serious compositions to tackle it through especially when rankings are at stake.