Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

[whiskeybravo]

I see absolutelly no issues to tanks dpsing, it is in the basics. You are a melee fighter, you wanna grab attention? Gotta cause enough pain and fear for that, that means damage. The only reason tanks grab attention is thanks to cheap artificial fear called enmity, if you wanna know what is true fear, talk to my fellow Black Mages, they know what is true solid fear.

What the.. Have you heard of balance?

If a tank did as much damage as regular dps, what would be the point of bringing any actual dps? You can just have tanks wrecking whatever you're up against and never die due to their superior defense. Probably wouldn't even need healers with a couple PLD for Clemency.

So, your point is rather invalid. DPS and healers need the tank to be a damage sponge. Tanks need healers to stay alive and need dps to clear content.. Without that balance you'd have basically one class with which everything could be done. Way to make it interesting..

Respectfully, I disagree with this blanket statement.

Warrior being harder to play than the other tanks doesn't mean they aren't superior. Granted, I personally find DRK a bit more difficult to master than War. But they have everything. Good damage mitigation, increased base HP, increased healing rec'd, self heals, debuffs to improve raid dps and decrease raid damage taken, interesting stack management mechanics, and the highest damage output of the 3. Hallowed ground is practically the only thing better than what the other 2 tanks have. It's true each has their own advantage and disadvantage per encounter, but nearly every group raids with at least 1 war and doesn't care which tank the other is. That should be a slight indication of their superiority if nothing else.

[Gravton]

What the.. Have you heard of balance?

If a tank did as much damage as regular dps, what would be the point of bringing any actual dps? You can just have tanks wrecking whatever you're up against and never die due to their superior defense. Probably wouldn't even need healers with a couple PLD for Clemency.

So, your point is rather invalid. DPS and healers need the tank to be a damage sponge. Tanks need healers to stay alive and need dps to clear content.. Without that balance you'd have basically one class with which everything could be done. Way to make it interesting..

She said she had no issue with tanks dpsing, she didn't say tanks should put up numbers the dps manage. A tank should be dpsing other wise the OT would just sit there and wait for instructions.

[Ahrniel]

She said she had no issue with tanks dpsing, she didn't say tanks should put up numbers the dps manage. A tank should be dpsing other wise the OT would just sit there and wait for instructions.

Thanks for clarifying for me. People are so salty it is hilarious, they can't help but commit mistakes and morally judge people while doing it.
It is like this isn't even a forum about a game.

[Shurrikhan]

What the.. Have you heard of balance?

If a tank did as much damage as regular dps, what would be the point of bringing any actual dps?

• Better control over that damage dealt and its dynamics, likely with greater burst.
• The damage not coming at cost of potential mitigation.
• Auxiliary capabilities, such as mobility and offensive and/or defensive support. (Essentially, whatever the toolkit didn't spend on mitigation.)

I'm not saying tanks should have the same attack power and potencies, so to speak, as dps—merely that even if an OT were to deal similar damage over time, events could still bring out the need for a DPS through what parts of their toolkits aren't being spent on additional mitigation. Your tanks could be tanks in the mechanized, mobile, armored artilery sense of the word and the DPS "specialists" would still have use. This only increases as fights allow for greater player manipulation through their arsenals, and with Heavensward CC and such being about as bare-bones as possible that's pretty much the only direction of change possible.

Toolkits, not the trinity in and of itself, make things interesting. How much more damage are the damage-dealers doing because the tank is present, and why? In the tank's own toolkit, how does he maximize combined personal and (others') raid damage, both simultaneously and in trade?

Edit: to put it another way, unless the fight is specifically crafted to require a Tank's level of survivability (in a way that can't be countered through additional swaps, absorbs, or whatever else), DPS don't "need the Tank to be a damage sponge." Rather, the Tank being there facilitates DPS enough to be worth the trade of an extra DPS for that Tank. Now, depending on the shape of composition SE wants to push, the inclusion of a tank might almost always be a raid dps increase, regardless of their skill. Or, they might provide enough weight to the DPSs' auxiliary toolkits that there's actually some thought to that decision, and skill DPS can actually do viably well without a tank, say, on a typical dungeon or normal raid run. That's SE's balance to choose.

And with that, a sidenote: Would it really be so bad for something other than the 1/2/1 composition to be used once in a while, optimally?