Concerns about " Getting rid of unused and ineffective actions"

[Theodric]

I'm all for the number of abilities being reduced for every class/job. As it stands a lot of abilities are just anti-fun. I realise that is subjective but some are so situational they aren't used very often at all or they're just abilities that really should be baked into another ability instead.

[Pondera]

I'm all for the number of abilities being reduced for every class/job. As it stands a lot of abilities are just anti-fun. I realise that is subjective but some are so situational they aren't used very often at all or they're just abilities that really should be baked into another ability instead.

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

[Critical-Limit]

I like how rotations are now. I feel they're just right

[Nezerius]

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

Heavy Thrust is the ability that increases damage by 15%.

Feint has been mentioned multiple times, which is the Lancer ability that applies a +20% slow onto the target. It might sound great when just looking at the number, but it doesn't really have a noticeable effect against bosses, and that's if the boss isn't completely immune to it anyway. (which is the case for about 90% of them)

I mistook Featherfoot for Fists of Wind, so that movement speed increase stance isn't confirmed to be on the chopping block.

If I'd have to give my opinion on DRG pruning, I'd say pruning some of the oGCD abilities is a start, as their opener is filled with 2 oGCDs per GCD. Something like Leg Sweep could have its damage component removed, so it's only used when something needs to be stunned. That said, my opinion would be to remove the damage component of all stuns (minus Holy), and then make stunning bosses more important again.
Changing Blood of the Dragon would be nice too, as it can be frustrating to lose the buff before it comes off CD again.

[Morningstar1337]

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

Heavy Thurs is one of DRG's combo pieces. I doubt they would remove that. Feint is the one causing Slow. And regarding Slow itself, the debate as few pages back is how CC abilities seem to be useless at endgame. Every dungeon mob from 50 onwards can't be sleeped or bound, Heavy is useless, and the only effective CC is Stun and only at Trash at that. (PvP aside, all CC abilites are useful there)

Regarding Slow specificity it only seems to affect the Auto attacks. You can't use it to slow down Magic or certain (read: most) mechanics, thought it likewise of little use and visibility. Also I think you got Slow mixed up with Heavy.

That said. Feint has a use...for exploting a loophole in Wanderer's Minuet and Gauss Barrel. The Loophole being that those abilities add cast times to ARC/BRD and MCH weaponskills, repsectibly, not LNC's so Feint remains the only option for AoE-phobic Ranged players apart form lower DPS

[Balipu]

The same can be said for every combo; if there's no viable reason to leave a combo early, then that whole combo is essentially one ability, its finisher, and would normally make sense to condense into a single key. This is of course more the case for Dragoon than, say, Ninja.

As a ninja I don't agree. Altough I'm sure the savage raiders will tell me why I'm wrong but I think the ninja combos are very bad. Currently you need to keep up Dancing Edge, Mutilate, Huton (via armor crush) and Shadow Fang if you want optimal damage. DE, AC and SF are all at the ends of different combos. All in all you have to execute NINE abilities, just to reapply said effects. I'd much rather spend my time junping around, throwing ninjutsu and using new tricks like traps and transformations that I hope we will get. I personally would put DE, AC, and SF into one single combo chain and let the player do ninja stuff while the efffects are in no danger of running out (a little over 10 seconds)

Also for ninja: I really don't think we need two poisons. They aren't different enough. Give one the bonus effect of both and let the other go. Hyoton is a PVP skill. Move it away. I understand that with hal a dozen buffs and bad latency, Fuuma Shuriken is better than Raiton, but to apply Dacing Edge for example you need to be in melee range anyway, so maybe it would be better to give it a damage bonus based on range from the target. You know, to warrant casting it from 25 yards away as was no doubt originally intended.

[Rikku1987]

Stone 2, not Stoneskin 2, Stone 2 is the DPS skill. As for Thunder 2, the reason that you give is exactly the reason that it is useless. Why is Thunder 3 not a trait for thunder 2? why does it need to be another skill? Having both makes one irrelevant.

I use thunder2(instead of thunder1) on my BLM because damage from procs is definied by what dot is currently on boss and not what cast you use after it proc'd, so proc from it has a higher potency.
thunder3 even more but cost too much mana and cast time is too high (i only swiftcast that)

Also duration is longer than thunder1. I like it more than thunder1 after ice3 for mana to fill up.. also, useing ice3+thunder1+ice4+fire3 isnt always enough time for your mana to fill up(but with T2 it is cause slightly longer cast, but not as long as T3), so for me as BLM main i DO need all 3 of them..

[Kaurie]

I use thunder2(instead of thunder1) on my BLM because damage from procs is definied by what dot is currently on boss and not what cast you use after it proc'd, so proc from it has a higher potency.
thunder3 even more but cost too much mana and cast time is too high (i only swiftcast that)

Also duration is longer than thunder1. I like it more than thunder1 after ice3 for mana to fill up.. also, useing ice3+thunder1+ice4+fire3 isnt always enough time for your mana to fill up, so for me as BLM main i DO need all 3 of them

Thunder and Thunder II have the same per tick potency. The length of the DoT is defined by which Thunder you use on Thundercloud (i.e. you cast Thunder, proc's cast Thunder III, you get the dot duration of Thunder III with the potency of Thunder I - except all 3 Thunder's have the same potency per tick, so that point is moot).

[Rikku1987]

yes but the instant damage potency is different. Thunder3 dot base -> proc = 390 potency instant (+new dot). If you have a thunder1 dot active and it procs it's only something around 200 potency (even if you get rid of that proc with a T3... if that one procs also it will get high potency instant etc etc

once you have a proc ready and want to cast it, it's obviously always T3


But even more important is casttime, T1 is too fast at nowadays 13xx spellspeed... while T3 is really slow -> T2 is perfect for that (if your mana can handle it). Some BLMs use ice1 to fill that time but ice 1 is such a joke on bosses you could also just wait a second and do nothing instead )

[Felis]

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

Fist of Wind: Only to run fast out of a big AoE. For the actual fight Fist of Fire have high priority.