Concerns about " Getting rid of unused and ineffective actions"

[Nezerius]

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

Heavy Thrust is the ability that increases damage by 15%.

Feint has been mentioned multiple times, which is the Lancer ability that applies a +20% slow onto the target. It might sound great when just looking at the number, but it doesn't really have a noticeable effect against bosses, and that's if the boss isn't completely immune to it anyway. (which is the case for about 90% of them)

I mistook Featherfoot for Fists of Wind, so that movement speed increase stance isn't confirmed to be on the chopping block.

If I'd have to give my opinion on DRG pruning, I'd say pruning some of the oGCD abilities is a start, as their opener is filled with 2 oGCDs per GCD. Something like Leg Sweep could have its damage component removed, so it's only used when something needs to be stunned. That said, my opinion would be to remove the damage component of all stuns (minus Holy), and then make stunning bosses more important again.
Changing Blood of the Dragon would be nice too, as it can be frustrating to lose the buff before it comes off CD again.

[Duelle]

Something like Leg Sweep could have its damage component removed, so it's only used when something needs to be stunned. That said, my opinion would be to remove the damage component of all stuns (minus Holy), and then make stunning bosses more important again.

I agree that Leg Sweep should deal no damage, but the stun thing really needs to be reworked. I've been complaining about this since beta, but jobs should have interrupts rather than stuns, especially since stuns lead to immunity. You'd otherwise have to make bosses that reset themselves the way HM Ifrit did in order to mostly avoid immunity getting in the way of a stun rotation (and even then all it took was one guy spamming Shoulder Tackle/Leg Sweep to ruin things).

An alternative would be to sort of PvP-mode boss mobs by making all stuns last .5/1 second on bosses, but making it impossible for a boss to build immunity.

[Shurrikhan]

I agree that Leg Sweep should deal no damage, but the stun thing really needs to be reworked. I've been complaining about this since beta, but jobs should have interrupts rather than stuns, especially since stuns lead to immunity. You'd otherwise have to make bosses that reset themselves the way HM Ifrit did in order to mostly avoid immunity getting in the way of a stun rotation (and even then all it took was one guy spamming Shoulder Tackle/Leg Sweep to ruin things).

An alternative would be to sort of PvP-mode boss mobs by making all stuns last .5/1 second on bosses, but making it impossible for a boss to build immunity.

It has always seemed weird to me that whereas Silence has no DR cap, half of all melee have no equivalent uncapped 'interrupt' regularly available. I don't mind in that in those cases where the Silence can seem superior on bosses who can't be stunned anyways, but as a typical toolkit part that just seems... off. (Not that I'd want to spend an extra key just on that function, and sometimes where the need to save stuns exceeds the weight of damage output over time, that DR mechanic, including the last infinitesimally small (interrupt) stun, can be kind of interesting.)

Btw, weren't the A4 legs technically stunnable only while casting, as not to cap their DRs beforehand on a DPS-intensive fight? More of that concept might work as well.

[Morningstar1337]

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

Heavy Thurs is one of DRG's combo pieces. I doubt they would remove that. Feint is the one causing Slow. And regarding Slow itself, the debate as few pages back is how CC abilities seem to be useless at endgame. Every dungeon mob from 50 onwards can't be sleeped or bound, Heavy is useless, and the only effective CC is Stun and only at Trash at that. (PvP aside, all CC abilites are useful there)

Regarding Slow specificity it only seems to affect the Auto attacks. You can't use it to slow down Magic or certain (read: most) mechanics, thought it likewise of little use and visibility. Also I think you got Slow mixed up with Heavy.

That said. Feint has a use...for exploting a loophole in Wanderer's Minuet and Gauss Barrel. The Loophole being that those abilities add cast times to ARC/BRD and MCH weaponskills, repsectibly, not LNC's so Feint remains the only option for AoE-phobic Ranged players apart form lower DPS

[Felis]

Such as what? I haven't leveled Dragoon myself, but I hear thats a popular candidate for pruning. Especially something called Heavy Thrust, causing slow? You'd think, this game being so mechanics based as it is, that slowing down an enemy in a raid, or speeding up your own movement, like with Fists of Wind, would be extremely valuable.

Fist of Wind: Only to run fast out of a big AoE. For the actual fight Fist of Fire have high priority.

[Critical-Limit]

I like how rotations are now. I feel they're just right

[Rikku1987]

yes but the instant damage potency is different. Thunder3 dot base -> proc = 390 potency instant (+new dot). If you have a thunder1 dot active and it procs it's only something around 200 potency (even if you get rid of that proc with a T3... if that one procs also it will get high potency instant etc etc

once you have a proc ready and want to cast it, it's obviously always T3


But even more important is casttime, T1 is too fast at nowadays 13xx spellspeed... while T3 is really slow -> T2 is perfect for that (if your mana can handle it). Some BLMs use ice1 to fill that time but ice 1 is such a joke on bosses you could also just wait a second and do nothing instead )

[Pondera]

But even more important is casttime, T1 is too fast at nowadays 13xx spellspeed... while T3 is really slow -> T2 is perfect for that (if your mana can handle it). Some BLMs use ice1 to fill that time but ice 1 is such a joke on bosses you could also just wait a second and do nothing instead )

True. I only use Bliz 1 to get myself out of a bad situation when I flub a flare rotation and have no mana. But surely the Heavy effect must be useful for SOMETHING in this game?

[Dzian]

: why i saw flash is because it only benefits warrior in niche situations and we all know theyre trying to reduce war's power without crippling it completely was my reasoning its excessively useless on drk

Flash is very useful on paladin though. It's there primary enmity generator for groups pulls. It's far for being a useless skill so it's unlikely to be one they'll get rid of.

[Pondera]

Flash is very useful on paladin though. It's there primary enmity generator for groups pulls. It's far for being a useless skill so it's unlikely to be one they'll get rid of.

I think Flash, Unleash, and whatever the WAR class has AoE enmity generation would be classified as a vital tanking skill, so it'd qualify for the tanking role cross-class skill pool. But, I think it should be characterized for each class, sort of like how the Tank's limit Break 3 all do roughly the same thing, but the graphics and appearance are different.