The toxicity of questing in MMORPGs today

[Kragon]

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Annwyn/1...-mmorpgs-today

[silentwindfr]

ok right of the start the subject did loose me.... older mmorpg with a complex story line? seriously? which one please?

in older mmorpg, quest was rare and even when they was adding one is more an escuse than a true: " a complex story carefully woven that will carry the player from the very beginning until the end."

In older RPGs, progression happened naturally as the player would visit new areas, defeat bosses, etc. In some RPGs the player might also have to grind, but unless the goal was to reach level 99, the grind was not mind numbing.

pink glasses of nostalgia detected.... most of the mmorpg before everquest and the theme park in general (yeah, because wow did steal most of it from Everquest) you had mmorpg, type anarchy online, lineage,.... most of them was a mindless grind! it's was get to a place and farm monster for hours litterally. FF11 is an old type, before some change it was: get in town, get a party, find a spot, and pull monster over and over and over, the only rest was when the caster had no mana left. rinse and repeat.

Anarchy online had even add a system of randomized mission, but it was simply a spot your can create, the goal was one more time, kill monster and monster and monster. (even if it was possible to create mission where the goal was to find item, AO did make a good system that with a bit of work can be used in FF14)

i did stop to read when the guys did say that in modern mmorpg it's needed to do quest for unlock area, but it was already the case in the older one.... the point is the number of quest was soo little that you was happy to do it.

another point bothering me it's the fact to say that subscription mmorpg goal is to slow you down....when honestly FF14 don't really slow us down... some even complain that it go too fast. with the add of the palace of the dead it did even become faster to level up. you level up your job in the palace of the dead (that is a classical dungeon/monster party a la AO) and after you focus the MSQ, but it's not even needed, the MSQ can bring you to 60 easily now. it do take time about 2 week.... i still remember taking 6 month only for reach my dragoon 42 on FF11... or some other game where it did take me longuer.

[Norleas]

Questing wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't wash and repeat so often. It's usually "go here and kill 10 of this monster for whatever reason" or "talk to this guy all the way over here, then come all the way back over here" etc. I don't even do quests anymore in this game, despite there being sooo many, I usually just level off of dungeons. Even that after a certain amount of time can be pretty repetitive too.

[Kragon]

ok right of the start the subject did loose me.... older mmorpg with a complex story line? seriously? which one please?

in older mmorpg, quest was rare and even when they was adding one is more an escuse than a true: " a complex story carefully woven that will carry the player from the very beginning until the end."

In older mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot the world itself told the story. But in today's generation of mmorpgs doesn't it feel strange that all the exact same quests are done by millions of people... the npcs give out the exact same quests and rewards to millions of other players... doesn't it feels artificial?

[cammi]

In older mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot the world itself told the story. But in today's generation of mmorpgs doesn't it feel strange that all the exact same quests are done by millions of people... the npcs give out the exact same quests and rewards to millions of other players... doesn't it feels artificial?

No because that's how video games work. You're only ever going to get what the game/plot is made from, nothing more nothing less. Can they do something different? Maybe but why should they if it's untested now days?

[silentwindfr]

In older mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot the world itself told the story. But in today's generation of mmorpgs doesn't it feel strange that all the exact same quests are done by millions of people... the npcs give out the exact same quests and rewards to millions of other players... doesn't it feels artificial?

the fact that 100-1000 people did kill the wolf of the same area for age don't bother you? don't it make artificial how the monster spawn?

why care about what the other did do? that the real trouble of the mmorpg world now... people are always looking at what the other do. they check what raid they did complete, if they was the first and such... if they do the story and such... who care, the point is to do your stuff, yes you will have content that you will do with group, small or big, but in the end the important is your own experience.
the raid i did complete in my time of hardcore (it's over by the way), even with a static was not perceive the same way for anybody. it will depend of the role, the type of content and such.

the experience you will feel is the real point important. the fact that you can't find fun anymore is simply saying you have play too much. because in older game, we was killing monster for... no reason, quest are simply a reason for cover the bashing of monster. more or less with story.

[Jetstream_Fox]

snip

While I do tend to agree with you on not caring what others accomplish, it's pretty much a given that many people play mmos to obtain X item before everyone else, but when everything starts out the same and everyone progresses through the story the same (if it really has one and not just a multitude of quests) things become impersonal. Like for example being the WoL and the 7 others you kill things with are just experienced adventures, but in the end we are all the WoL.

If you play ESO you get this feeling a lot, you're supposed to be the main hero, and you think you've carved out this awesome experience only to find out 5000 other people did that as well, or you've plowed through this tough cave on this side quest you found along that winding road, that you found because you ventured off the beaten path and found it behind the waterfall, and out of the blue 34 more players show up to loot that same chest.

After awhile it makes the game world feel less lively and ends up having less immersion, but then again 14 never really had much immersion anyway.

[silentwindfr]

that a debat we had recently on the french forum, the Warrior of Light is not only one person, it was told to us that we are a lot to have receive the echos. we are ONE of the warrior of light. indeed some question will make it quite inpersonal to have the same quest... but depending of the job you play the first time you do the quest you will not have the same feeling in the end. let's take the exemple of the msq that make you do trial, if you are a healer or a tank or a dps, your feeling about this trial will change, indeed the end of the story will be the same for everyone, but it can't be helped.

but like i said, why care? i do my stuff, if someone do it too why i care? we can discuss and maybe we will not have the same understanding, allowing us to discuss how it did evolve.

but in all honesty, the quest system is only a cover for the bashing of monster. do you want to come back in the time you had no quest and was only killing monster? no because it was the system of the V1.... in the V1 you had 1 story quest every 5 level and most of your exp was done with monster party, do it was more funnier? less grindy? more....real? no because tons of people was killing the same monster spawning at the same point at the same given time.

when you play a multiplayer game you can't expect to have a solo experience. some stuff will be generic whatever they do. an example that seems quite nice, from yoshida while the fanfest, when someone have said why my character can't heal when i'm scolar/white mage/astrologian? the question was clever, and yoshida have said they will try to take this in account in the futur, but he did say too that if a character needed to die, they will die! because in the end, the story must go in the sense they want.
even in solo game in the end we go where the dev choose we go... it's always artificial and inpersonal, tons of tons of people will do it too.

do i feel the quest system is perfect, hell no, but it's far better than some alternative we have for now.

[Seig345]

ok right of the start the subject did loose me.... older mmorpg with a complex story line? seriously? which one please? [...]

If you reread carefully, the article begins by talking about regular, singleplayer RPGs, and then moves on to MMORPGs afterwards.

I feel like it is a given that your progress will feel impersonal because these are RPGs, not fantasy world simulators, which is what would be required to have spontaneously generated content that everyone and their mom hasn't done too.

If you take Skyrim for example; you create your own persona in Tamriel and you alone are the hero/antihero the npcs talk to. There's no multiplayer so its just you running around the world. But then remember that while you cant see them, hundreds of thousands of other gamers are experiencing all the same content you are. The only unique experiences to you might be a funny combination of glitches.

It's just a little easier to pretend otherwise when you don't see other people running around killing the same legendary bad guy.

[KitingGenbu]

...

Well, its nice to know that some of us were just as anti-social back in the old days of mmorpgs as we are now. You're talking about getting a party and mindlessly grinding mobs until one has to rest (or sometimes having a power level), but some of us were actually pretty social in said parties, often times making friends and continuously partying with those people on a regular basis until we hit level cap together. Many people like those times because of said experiences and only having quests when they actually gave something worth it (in FFXI's case it would usually be class armor and spells). It modern games, you hardly talk to anyone, let alone see many of those people again outside of said instanced zone. Not everyone's personal experience is about the individual. Many people play MMORPGs for the experiences they can share with others.