The toxicity of questing in MMORPGs today

[Kragon]

ok right of the start the subject did loose me.... older mmorpg with a complex story line? seriously? which one please?

in older mmorpg, quest was rare and even when they was adding one is more an escuse than a true: " a complex story carefully woven that will carry the player from the very beginning until the end."

In older mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot the world itself told the story. But in today's generation of mmorpgs doesn't it feel strange that all the exact same quests are done by millions of people... the npcs give out the exact same quests and rewards to millions of other players... doesn't it feels artificial?

[cammi]

In older mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot the world itself told the story. But in today's generation of mmorpgs doesn't it feel strange that all the exact same quests are done by millions of people... the npcs give out the exact same quests and rewards to millions of other players... doesn't it feels artificial?

No because that's how video games work. You're only ever going to get what the game/plot is made from, nothing more nothing less. Can they do something different? Maybe but why should they if it's untested now days?

[silentwindfr]

In older mmorpgs like Dark Age of Camelot the world itself told the story. But in today's generation of mmorpgs doesn't it feel strange that all the exact same quests are done by millions of people... the npcs give out the exact same quests and rewards to millions of other players... doesn't it feels artificial?

the fact that 100-1000 people did kill the wolf of the same area for age don't bother you? don't it make artificial how the monster spawn?

why care about what the other did do? that the real trouble of the mmorpg world now... people are always looking at what the other do. they check what raid they did complete, if they was the first and such... if they do the story and such... who care, the point is to do your stuff, yes you will have content that you will do with group, small or big, but in the end the important is your own experience.
the raid i did complete in my time of hardcore (it's over by the way), even with a static was not perceive the same way for anybody. it will depend of the role, the type of content and such.

the experience you will feel is the real point important. the fact that you can't find fun anymore is simply saying you have play too much. because in older game, we was killing monster for... no reason, quest are simply a reason for cover the bashing of monster. more or less with story.

[Jetstream_Fox]

snip

While I do tend to agree with you on not caring what others accomplish, it's pretty much a given that many people play mmos to obtain X item before everyone else, but when everything starts out the same and everyone progresses through the story the same (if it really has one and not just a multitude of quests) things become impersonal. Like for example being the WoL and the 7 others you kill things with are just experienced adventures, but in the end we are all the WoL.

If you play ESO you get this feeling a lot, you're supposed to be the main hero, and you think you've carved out this awesome experience only to find out 5000 other people did that as well, or you've plowed through this tough cave on this side quest you found along that winding road, that you found because you ventured off the beaten path and found it behind the waterfall, and out of the blue 34 more players show up to loot that same chest.

After awhile it makes the game world feel less lively and ends up having less immersion, but then again 14 never really had much immersion anyway.

[CheshirePuss]

Snip

This... feels like an almost unnecessary point. I feel like if we were to play a game for the sake of true immersion, we'd need to forfeit the multiplayer aspect of the MMO... which is redundant. It is true that SE takes the route of "You are our Warrior of Light", but it's not blind to the fact that it's not a game about just one person. On several occasions, it drops small bits of commentary that suggests they are aware that the Warrior of Light does not often fight alone, and is even suggested at those times to gather your band of adventurers for this or that task.

Hell, even at the start, it shows you and a half a dozen random stranger npc's flying off when you're first introduced to Hydaelyn. It has never been about just our character (even though the story focuses on yours for continuity sake).

[KitingGenbu]

...

Well, its nice to know that some of us were just as anti-social back in the old days of mmorpgs as we are now. You're talking about getting a party and mindlessly grinding mobs until one has to rest (or sometimes having a power level), but some of us were actually pretty social in said parties, often times making friends and continuously partying with those people on a regular basis until we hit level cap together. Many people like those times because of said experiences and only having quests when they actually gave something worth it (in FFXI's case it would usually be class armor and spells). It modern games, you hardly talk to anyone, let alone see many of those people again outside of said instanced zone. Not everyone's personal experience is about the individual. Many people play MMORPGs for the experiences they can share with others.

[silentwindfr]

Well, its nice to know that some of us were just as anti-social back in the old days of mmorpgs as we are now. You're talking about getting a party and mindlessly grinding mobs until one has to rest (or sometimes having a power level), but some of us were actually pretty social in said parties, often times making friends and continuously partying with those people on a regular basis until we hit level cap together. Many people like those times because of said experiences and only having quests when they actually gave something worth it (in FFXI's case it would usually be class armor and spells). It modern games, you hardly talk to anyone, let alone see many of those people again outside of said instanced zone. Not everyone's personal experience is about the individual. Many people play MMORPGs for the experiences they can share with others.

yeah it was social, but in the end it was a mindless grind... the point was about the mindless grind, not about the social part of it. and honestly when you did spend 1-3 hours to do the same mindless grind, you run fast out of joke, worst it make you totally out of the game since you will start to talk of stuff totally unrelated to the game.

however i admit i did wish the quest system was allowing more grouping, ff14 have a trouble with this part, and i have said that the quest system is far to be perfect, but the bashing, monster party and such don't make the mmorpg better. i still recall how some class was simply hated in some game for some bashing because not efficient enough. leading to some toxicity that was strong enough for make people stop to play. older game wasn't that better, the toxicity was more insidious.

ps: a point important you talk of sharing experience with other, but when was the last time you did try to share experience with people outside your group, extending this number of people you was playing with? nice to talk of social, but that too is something modern mmorpg did create, people don't want to extend them circle of friend.

[KitingGenbu]

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Being social does not mean always having to relate to in game material, which is highly unlikely to talk about if you're new. Some people are comfortable talking about random stuff while others aren't. Doesn't mean things are limited to just that. People are ultimately limited to themselves.

...

As I mentioned earlier, everyone's experiences aren't always the same and there are many elements in FFXI that I wish were more modernized at there time to make it a more flexible experience. I won't pretend that I always had luck with getting people and even if I did make parties to level, I often had to find people which would take hours. Not to mention I was a lot younger and only had school to deal with so I had more flexible time to play the game as opposed to now; however, I did meet a lot of individuals in the game by doing so, mainly because it was annoying to find people and humans tend to travel the path of least resistance, so if you're grouping with a certain group of people often, you tend to look for them first before just tossing yourself in the wind and hope you land somewhere.

As we get older, what we want from games will usually change to meet our situations, which is inevitable. It would just be nice to have an approach that catered to both styles rather just adapting to one or the other. Its not exactly appealing to a new player running around an area and seeing no one mainly because most content is instanced based through-out the game (this is directed at most modern games, not just FFXIV). Having a balance allows the game to feel more lively and inviting while also allowing those with awkward schedules to still enjoy the game.

[raela]

Well, its nice to know that some of us were just as anti-social back in the old days of mmorpgs as we are now.

I tried FFXI and gave up at level 18, because it was one long struggle in the Valkrum dunes to even find parties as a DPS, which I was just leveling as a subjob to the DPS I wanted to play. I never found a LS or group of friends in that time, and I did try to be social, with the parties I found and the people hanging around.

I'm way more social in FFXIV. Found a FC through google, found statics through the FC, and a few friends through PF. I prefer smaller groups of closer friends (static) than shorter contact out in the world. Besides, even if no one is around, the DF system allows me to actually run content, rather than AFKing in a zone, hoping for a party.

As for the main topic.. I've heard that mindset before, but, I don't get it. What do you expect from a video game..? The MSQ experiences of other players do not detract from my own.