A12 savage World first 3 days after patch

[Velhart]

I really think we're at the 'worst of all worlds' by having only 2 modes. If there was only savage (i.e. bahamut coil style, ignore the actual Savage bahamut raid pls. it's doesn't fit what I'm describing) raiding, it would be acceptable to all raiders but it would exclude a class of players who do not want that level of challenge from experiencing an important part of the story.

Raiding stories are technically not important in the main story line of the game. Coil was a heavier tie in with 1.0 and a conclusion to that story. Alexander is mostly it's own thing. The stakes are high on both, but they are ultimately large side quests that do not affect the streamlined story.

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On a separate note, whatever side someone is on the argument, please do not pretend that just because of a hypothetical possibility of excluding casual players from raid content means that casual players have nothing to do. 95% of this game is catered towards casual players. The way SE builds content in this game, I would argue they build content towards bad players (Relic for example).

I would even argue on just making Hard > Savage, but since we have to argue this in SE's mindset. The three levels Normal > Hard > Savage is the only realistic compromise SE may do if we pressure them enough.

SE gave hardcore raiders what they wanted last patch and it very nearly killed off the raid community.

The trouble with the game is that it's far too skewed in the direction of total casual or elite hardcore. It seems A9-A12S has been SE's attempt to tone things back towards midcore and unfortunately, I feel this is the way they prefer to go going forward as much as you'd hate it.

It's a hell of a cheaper, easier option than developing a 3rd difficulty tier, as nice as that would be.

It did not kill the hardcore scene. It killed the midcore scene, because your choices were painfully easy or painfully hard without a proper middle ground that a lot of other MMO's practice.

[Welsper59]

It did not kill the hardcore scene. It killed the midcore scene, because your choices were painfully easy or painfully hard without a proper middle ground that a lot of other MMO's practice.

That middle ground is certainly where XIV lacks the most. In 2.0, we actually had a middle ground with Hard/Extreme Mode G/T/I to ease the transition to Coil, which obviously wasn't Savage but good enough for people at the time. People did actively clear at least HM primals and develop SOME degree of challenge for themselves originally.

The point this game is at would not really allow for a smooth transition into properly done mid-core content in the raid scene. The concept of difficult raids in this game is really only by comparison of Coil (which not a whole lot of people successfully took part in at the time) and Savage mode Alexander. Sprinkle in a bit of Extreme mode horror stories for pugs, and then we have nothing but distaste for difficult raid content with the majority player base.

They need to dial it back to an easier access scene. Dungeons, for example, are a good start. Trying to get 3 friends/LS/FC/pugs to form a pre-made is noticeably easier than 7. Yoshi-P has even advertised the concept of challenge being present in Fl.1-50 of PotD with solo, which not many challenge seekers would bother to do. He continues to suggest challenge in the latter floors we just got.

It seems like they might have an idea of how to inject difficult content for the masses, they just need to give it a better light. "Challenge Mode" type of dungeons could fulfill that. Group content with, ideally, great or unique rewards (it's own tier set). Maybe give those rewards additional benefits exclusive to those Challenge dungeons... or maybe even applicable to Savage difficulty, to help ease their own take on it. It likely wouldn't interfere with world first go's, since that gets cleared in the first week usually lol. It'd be acceptable to have a limit on challenge mode rewards to a degree. Add competitive elements to it like ranking, similar to how they did PotD.

[Sparktacus]

I still won't ever comprehend why 3 difficulties is too hard. It isn't, at all. They can make 2 modes, HARD and SAVAGE, then strip away 90-95% of the mechanics, lower hp drastically, for normal so it becomes nothing more then a trial raid like hydra difficulty for those that really just want story or are not able to raid for whatever reason.

I am not sure what the answer is but the right direction was toning down the difficulty so the raid is accessible to the general population. But balance was truly perfect in Coil 2/Savage Coil 2 era.

[KopeAcetic]

The three levels Normal > Hard > Savage is the only realistic compromise....

I do agree with this and I even made this argument previously in this thread a few times. I did counter my own point immediately by saying that SE doesn't have the manpower to actually do this - it's pretty well documented that Yoshi-P has asked for a larger team and has not gotten it on multiple occasions, correct?

To counter THAT there was a savage mode released for second after that tier's release and before the next tier's release wasn't there? If they made the first release of every raid tier be "hard mode" or mid-core raider centric that would be great for most players, then when the odd number patches come in with the 24 man they could release a savage raid content which would be for achievements/mounts. I'd think this would satiate every group, and they already did something similar at one point. Am I too pie in the sky with this idea?

[thegreatonemal]

Exactly. The stereotype that HC raiders ONLY do HC content is entirely wrong. I play for countless hours every day, spend hours sharing yard decorating ideas for the FC house, gather mats endlessly to equip airships, also acquired the wonderful Yokai mount after some heavy-duty FATE grinding, and I'm enjoying the new Squadrons so far.

But I LIVE for the challenging of raiding in this game. Without a challenge, everything else seems hollow. And seeing the clears racking up so fast...this isn't going to be a challenge.

Moot point until you're the one completing the content in 3 days. those people were running for a good 16+ hours a day mind you. Most of you run 6 hours a week or so.

[KopeAcetic]

Moot point until you're the one completing the content in 3 days. those people were running for a good 16+ hours a day mind you. Most of you run 6 hours a week or so.

I have to echo this. If you're craving the challenge and are looking up guides for each fight and the individual mechanics you have to deal with you're doing it wrong. If your party members are looking up the strategies and dishing them out you should probably find yourself a new group with like minded individuals that want the challenge. I think a large percentage of people are looking up the guides and then are complaining there isn't a challenge out there for them, and that makes me sad .

[Yallaid]

I would even argue on just making Hard > Savage, but since we have to argue this in SE's mindset. The three levels Normal > Hard > Savage is the only realistic compromise SE may do if we pressure them enough.

This is exactly my perspective on things as well, to be honest. I believe the 'best' option is the have Hard and Savage and to accept that 'casual' players (i.e. non-raiders) should have to take it or leave it.

I really feel like the addition of Story tier difficulty was solving a problem that SE was really the one most concerned about. Namely that there were players who did not experience some of the content that they were the most proud of creating. Obviously there were players also clamoring for an easier, story focused raid, but I truly think SE was most strongly motivated by the low overall clear %s on bahamut coil.

I think SE should accept that the 'exclusivity' of raiding is its entire appeal and that the current attempt to have it every way at once is just going to continue to cause head-aches and will prolong this kind of whiplash balancing/re-balancing that we get every even patch release.

[Yukiko]

Coil was a heavier tie in with 1.0 and a conclusion to that story.

You cant say that...
If you played Limsa Storyline in 1.x, then you know why Y'shtola hasnt won against the ascian.
Y'shtola was not as week as she is since 2.x...

Somehow i get the feeling the savage after alexander will involve one of the other 2 storylines and i gonna LOVE it. I really like to know what happened with the other 2 stories (i played all 3)

[Yallaid]

You cant say that...
If you played Limsa Storyline in 1.x, then you know why Y'shtola hasnt won against the ascian.
Y'shtola was not as week as she is since 2.x...

Somehow i get the feeling the savage after alexander will involve one of the other 2 storylines and i gonna LOVE it. I really like to know what happened with the other 2 stories (i played all 3)

all this does is remind me: why is the camera work during cut-scenes so much better back in 1.0??

I get that the engine was overhauled but its like SE fired their most competent cinematographer as a cost-cutting measure when they moved to 2.0. never got it really..

[Kaurie]

I don't know.. I don't feel the game is 99% casual when more than half of the playerbase can't even complete the content we have now. It'll be different if that 99% was clearing everything but it isn't.

Casual doesn't mean bad though. One can play casually and be a skilled player. I definitely would not say that Normal Alexander is midcore level of content.