Problems with the strength of gear coming from easy mode Alexander

[Neophyte]

Here is the problem people seem to not understand: With how 3.0 progression has worked, there is NO REASON to farm out gear from savage after you have cleared the final boss. You will replace all of that gear within a few hours of the server coming up on the next raid patch.

Why do you do that, if you have absolutely no need to?


I'll only get stuff for an "progression" BiS, i.e. an mix of crafted gear, prototype gear, depending on progress already keeping A9S right side in mind and the "good" scripture pieces.

For BLM there are already 220 pieces which outdamage 240 lore ones... so "Need to get da iLVL!!!!" isn't that good anyway sometimes, especially if the difference is only minor.

So right now I have WAR, WHM and SMN with altogether 6 pieces @ 230 (Yafaem) left, because law ones are shit and because of starting late in raid cycle I miss the according drops of A7S and the kill of A8S.
I'll still get the last 1-2 kills of A7S for the token to get at least the tank pants, which is my 2nd or 3rd most played job, especially if the crafted ones or prototype ones are parry/acc- or parry/Det-stuff.
MNK is 231 with 4 pieces of Yafaem left side, which can be replaced over time as well.

I'm not stupid and buy 40 craftables the first day, not even a single one... that's something for the 2nd or 3rd week, to fill out the gaps the inferior prototype/scripture one will leave.

In my opinion the current system caters to those:

1. People, who just want to kill it asap for the sake of clearing: They can replace "inferior" pieces pretty fast, while they start right into the raid. The 250 primal weapon is good to replace 245 ones with inferior sub-stats or is a good choice if the 260 scripture on is bad.
2. People who missed out the last raid tier.
3. People who haven't raided at all.
4. People with many played jobs, because there are 4 viable gear routes for the next 3,5+ months (Prototype, crafting, scripture, creator savage, ex primal for weapon)

Most of the suggestions I read would cater to:

1. People who already raid and are most incentived by gear.

[Clover_Blake]

(I haven't read all the pages, so please excuse me if this has been mentioned).

I thought raiders did get exclusive things in this game, armours and mounts that no one else has and which do stand out from the crowds, to prove all the challenges they've overcome. Also, I thought raiders somehow competed to see who manages to clear the content first. Why does it matter how many "casuals" can obtain similar gear through other means, if they're still unable to clear the Savage / Ex content, and therefore unable to obtain those prizes?

What's more, every 6 months or so (or less? Not sure), new challenges for raiders appear, which means more things to keep them busy, new content to be the first ones to beat, incentive to gear up as much as they can during the previous patch, and new exclusive items that not many people will be able to obtain. Isn't that supposed to be nice?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly, but it sounds like raiders want to raid once, get some sort of gear that will be superior to everything else for something akin a whole year, and then... do nothing. Just sit down and hope that their current gear won't be replaced in a loooong time. This is really confusing, haha.

[Ashiee]

I feel like a lot of people are not understanding what's being said in the majority of this thread.

The op mentions that in the current format of gear progression, the raid patch comes out, all gear from previous patch is totally useless in about a day because higher Ilvl gear that is superior out classes it. This is true, which means after you beat the previous raid teirs content... there is no reason to go back in because guess what, you already beat the hardest content on the game so there's no reason to worry about your current gear anymore. The only reason would be for glamour and that really isn't an incentive for a lot of people.

In the coil series of raids, you actually have a reason you go back in and farm. You would beat the content, and then go back and do the content every week to prepare yourself for the next teir. Currently there is no incentive like that in Alexander at all.

[Brian_]

(I haven't read all the pages, so please excuse me if this has been mentioned).

I thought raiders did get exclusive things in this game, armours and mounts that no one else has and which do stand out from the crowds, to prove all the challenges they've overcome. Also, I thought raiders somehow competed to see who manages to clear the content first. Why does it matter how many "casuals" can obtain similar gear through other means, if they're still unable to clear the Savage / Ex content, and therefore unable to obtain those prizes?

What's more, every 6 months or so (or less? Not sure), new challenges for raiders appear, which means more things to keep them busy, new content to be the first ones to beat, incentive to gear up as much as they can during the previous patch, and new exclusive items that not many people will be able to obtain. Isn't that supposed to be nice?

I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly, but it sounds like raiders want to raid once, get some sort of gear that will be superior to everything else for something akin a whole year, and then... do nothing. Just sit down and hope that their current gear won't be replaced in a loooong time. This is really confusing, haha.

No, we just don't want to spend millions of gil on patch day for the privilege of flushing all the gear we worked for months to get down the toilet. We also don't want to be forced to waste time farming unchallenging content when that time could be better spent learning and progressing through the fights that we care about. We'd also like more reason to keep our groups raiding even after clearing the final fight of a tier. As is, after you clear, you might as well just disband the group and unsub until the next even patch (and many groups did just that).

And, to add insult to injury, there is no real logic behind the gear progression at all. If i220 crafted or alex NM gear didn't exist in patch 3.2, we wouldn't have noticed it at all.

[Brian_]

In my opinion the current system caters to those:

1. People, who just want to kill it asap for the sake of clearing: They can replace "inferior" pieces pretty fast, while they start right into the raid. The 250 primal weapon is good to replace 245 ones with inferior sub-stats or is a good choice if the 260 scripture on is bad.
2. People who missed out the last raid tier.
3. People who haven't raided at all.
4. People with many played jobs, because there are 4 viable gear routes for the next 3,5+ months (Prototype, crafting, scripture, creator savage, ex primal for weapon)

Most of the suggestions I read would cater to:

1. People who already raid and are most incentived by gear.

You do realize that if i250 crafted / alex NM gear didn't exist, if someone wanted to get into raiding, they could literally farm a full set of i240 gear in a day due to unlocked lore and WCoM / VA upgrade drops and be ready to raid, right?

You could not raid, skip multiple raid tiers, play multiple jobs, and be fine with a day of work.

The i250 tier of gear actually makes it harder and more expensive to get into raiding.

[Clover_Blake]

This is true, which means after you beat the previous raid teirs content... there is no reason to go back in because guess what, you already beat the hardest content on the game so there's no reason to worry about your current gear anymore. The only reason would be for glamour and that really isn't an incentive for a lot of people.

But, considering that new raids (which require a higher ilv) will come in few months, why would people stop caring for their gear in the current patch? Wouldn't they want to obtain the best gear just to be ready for the next challenge?

What's more, glamour or items you simply use for showing off purposes are important for most players in every game I've seen. Exclusive items that prove that you've done this or that content are a must, and this game has them.

[Brian_]

But, considering that new raids (which require a higher ilv) will come in few months, why would people stop caring for their gear in the current patch? Wouldn't they want to obtain the best gear just to be ready for the next challenge?

What's more, glamour or items you simply use for showing off purposes are important for most players in every game I've seen. Exclusive items that prove that you've done this or that content are a must, and this game has them.

Because the gear is useless in the next patch. On day 1, people who care will be i250 without killing a single enemy.

And the glamour doesn't matter when you can go back into the content with i250 gear, faceroll it with echo, and get the same glamour in a fraction of the time.

[Clover_Blake]

Because the gear is useless in the next patch. On day 1, people who care will be i250 without needing to kill a single enemy.

And the glamour doesn't matter when you can go back into the content with i250 gear and faceroll it with echo.

So the problem is, then, that there's "too much content and too often". Basically, what I said earlier; you'd rather get super good gear once and then not have any reason to touch the game in a long time O_O

As for facerolling content, old content becomes "easier" (which doesn't really mean easy for most, as the majority still hasn't beat Savage modes), because there are new challenges released, aka new top gear and new exclusive items that only a few will initially get.

[Brian_]

You really don't get it at all.

Right now, if you clear A8S in 3.2 or 3.3, you have no reason to touch this game again until 3.4. Even if you farm for gear after clearing and until 3.4, all that effort is wasted because once 3.4 releases, it all gets replaced by i250 crafted / alex NM gear. You get super good gear once for the purpose of clearing and then never touch the game again until 3.4. Unless your static suddenly deteriorates in skill / execution or SE nerfs your job comp, you will never need more gear to clear the content.

Whereas if you didn't release i250 gear and instead kept i240 gear relevant until it was replaced through tomestones of scripture / Savage, groups would clear A8S in 3.2 or 3.3 and continue to farm until 3.4 because the weapons they get might matter if you decide to change jobs (or if the game decides for you like with AST). You are incentivized to continue gearing until the next gear cycle starts in 3.4 where you just continue your gear progression seamlessly rather than have it entirely reset.

And yea, people don't do old content. It doesn't help that there is zero reason to go back and do so outside of a minion.

[Belhi]

No, we just don't want to spend millions of gil on patch day for the privilege of flushing all the gear we worked for months to get down the toilet. We also don't want to be forced to waste time farming unchallenging content when that time could be better spent learning and progressing through the fights that we care about. We'd also like more reason to keep our groups raiding even after clearing the final fight of a tier. As is, after you clear, you might as well just disband the group and unsub until the next even patch (and many groups did just that).

And, to add insult to injury, there is no real logic behind the gear progression at all. If i220 crafted or alex NM gear didn't exist in patch 3.2, we wouldn't have noticed it at all.

How would you balance what crafters and gatherers make then so to keep the time and effort it takes to create crafted items reasonably rewarding? As of now the new materia set up means that overmelding is only useful if a crafter's products are potent enough to actually be worth using at some point. Considering the cost and time investment it takes to get to the point were you can actually craft those items, crafters should be able to create items of worthwhile value, particularly since the materials required to make those items require more cost and time investment to acquire.

I would also say that if its so easy to get Savage raid gear on the first day of the patch it rather undermines the value of the last teir of Savage gear anyway.