Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[Hayward]

To support your point, Someone mentioned Monster Hunter earlier in the thread. All those armour, skill and customisation options. and yet I can go online in Monster Hunter Generations right now and, outside of outliers, I will be in a group with only "Gaijin Hunter/insert other youtube personality approved" gear.

This is the Illusion of choice in action.

This is pretty much why the idea of "horizontal progresion" was a pipe dream in XI as well as XIV. As long as there are players who value Excel spreadsheets over game experience, any hopes of gear diversity are dashed before an update has been live for 24 hours (unless you're like me and take their talking points with the grain of salt they deserve).

[MomomiMomi]

This game needs better character progression in order to keep existing players subscribed to the game. Item progression is uninteresting/underwhelming for hardcore, "midcore", and casual players. I know virtual item value is sort of made up, but Square needs to do a better job of making players value virtual gear. Players should feel very motivated to get items since most RPG games have this type of item progression. The majority of player are motivated by gear and items, like in a Diablo ARPG type of sense.

This reminds me of the funniest thing I've see Yoshi-P say.

As an avid online gamer, I can’t go without mentioning Diablo and Ultima Online. Diablo taught me about the joys of playing online with other players, and how to add value to an item so that players would obsess over it.

Ha. Ha. Ha!

[Remedi]

No core of any game should be a repeat of the same thing over and over and over. Having some similar elements is fine...but keeping things exactly the same and stale will never be fun. You can keep the foundation..of course, absolutely. But what is built upon it should be innovative and creative. Not the same thing with a new skin..

What I meant is that if you don't like an RPG you shouldn't keep playing one and whine that it should be an RTS, also I don't think that your statement is necessarily true, some games are still very popular despite beign a carbon copy of themselves and other gets panned because they get outside of their comfort zone too much, the last 3-4 FF are a proof of this. Personally also I find that very few things that are coming from the community are innovative at all since most of the time ppl are asking to make this game like FF11

[Reynhart]

What I meant is that if you don't like an RPG you shouldn't keep playing one and whine that it should be an RTS, also I don't think that your statement is necessarily true, some games are still very popular despite beign a carbon copy of themselves and other gets panned because they get outside of their comfort zone too much, the last 3-4 FF are a proof of this.

You might want to refrain of the overstatements a bit, don't you think ?

For you, asking for changes is akin to wanting to play an RTS ? Yeah, sure...Oh, and by the way, did you...hmmm...played Lords Of Verminion ? Tell me how great it fits in the J-RPG genre...

As for the recent FF, despite what your personal opinion is, FF XIII was a huge success. It's the 4th game when it come to sales. So yes, stepping out of their comfort zone was a good idea.

[Iromi]

snip.

Yeah, I agree as well. He will try to implement it..and it will probably not work as some imagine. If it was up to me I would like to see a balance like 1.x had. Some horizontal and some vertical. It was a perfect balance and I was able to beat and clear all content with each job. It was when he put in the ilvl that he screwed up any chance they had at putting back to when it was good.

We could choose from a few pieces of gear..and got a lot of stats and options to meld them and in the end there was never "one way" to do something, there was many. My ways of defeating Garuda with every job were just as efficient as those who would try to class stack ^^

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yeah, I agree as well. He will try to implement it..and it will probably not work as some imagine. If it was up to me I would like to see a balance like 1.x had. Some horizontal and some vertical. It was a perfect balance and I was able to beat and clear all content with each job. It was when he put in the ilvl that he screwed up any chance they had at putting back to when it was good.

We could choose from a few pieces of gear..and got a lot of stats and options to meld them and in the end there was never "one way" to do something, there was many. My ways of defeating Garuda with every job were just as efficient as those who would try to class stack ^^

1.x didn't really have much gear to choose from tbf. You had AF, 1 set of crafted gear, and darklight at endgame. and to get crafted required millions and luck, and darklight required crafted gear, and the right jobs leveled so people would take you.

If you didn't have the crafted gear or darklight, no one would take you into the garuda fight. I never was able to complete it thanks to that, tho I was able to down moogle and Nael normal before the server save went into effect.

1.x was even more exclusive as to who got to do fights than 2.x+ was, and I'd hate to go back to that.

[Sandpark]

They're going to kinda have to work on horizontal progression for horizontal content, though... Otherwise their just isn't going to be much point to the additional content... Final Fantasy XI had a plethora of varied content, and all of it was relevant... This game cannot achieve that, because the extreme vertical progression is just going to render the rewards pointless... They pretty much have to work on some form of horizontal progression for this kind of content... That's not to say we should be doing Palace of the Dead for special stats though... PvP is a good example, I think... Feast offered players nothing in terms of item level progression, it was all about pretty much showing off... People wanted that Wolf Coat because it became a status symbol, not because of it's stats... They need to apply that kind of reward structure to PvE content, I think... Perhaps they intended to, Palace of the Dead is getting a leaderboard after all... If they can give us a compelling reason to care about that, then that can work as a solid justification for participating, because item level who cares rewards will not retain interest long term...

I don't think horizontal would work here and I have asked for it before. I was an avid FFXI player but let's be honest. It was relevant because the level cap or BIS didn't change for x amount of years. And that relevance was really rewarding for the 200-500k subscribers over the course of it's lifetime, and the game was financially successful. However, it never gained a massive playerbase and by massive, I don't mean WoW size but a million plus.

All content will become obsolete as long as rising levels exist for the worlds, enemies, and players. A workaround that is world scaling where enemies strengths scale to match yours. I don't really like that solution though even though it allows players to group easier and keeps content slightly challenging. I feel it cheapens the point of a player progressing and getting stronger in the world.

I can think of a racing game called PGR and in it was a kudos system. Which is a system that not only awarded you for winning but winning with style. I wonder if that would work here? Say you stun x skill successfully earning limit points. Those limit points are zone/content specific and can be used to purchase boons and character perks for that style of content. Sort of a system combining kudos and the champion system from Elder Scrolls Online. And with the limit points you could buy title earned costumes that only a player who achieved that milestone in your type of content could don. Or maybe special crafting styles motif per content. Actually I wish XIV endgame crafting did work like that in unlocking special motifs per specific class.

[MomomiMomi]

1.x didn't really have much gear to choose from tbf. You had AF, 1 set of crafted gear, and darklight at endgame. and to get crafted required millions and luck, and darklight required crafted gear, and the right jobs leveled so people would take you.

If you didn't have the crafted gear or darklight, no one would take you into the garuda fight. I never was able to complete it thanks to that, tho I was able to down moogle and Nael normal before the server save went into effect.

1.x was even more exclusive as to who got to do fights than 2.x+ was, and I'd hate to go back to that.

I don't see where this fear of exclusivity comes from. On our current system you either have the gear or you're excluded. You can't get any more exclusive than that.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I don't see where this fear of exclusivity comes from. On our current system you either have the gear or you're excluded. You can't get any more exclusive than that.

Eh, i was more annoyed than anything.

But people seem to have an idea that 1.x was way better than it actually was lol. "it had horizontal progressiona nd i could do fights the way i wanted!"

Except the community locked you into certain gear and if you didnt have blm and mnk leveled and geared you werent doing cutters cry. oh, all you have is the AF gear? which, to get, you needed parties for back then, it wasnt easy.
You aren't doing any of the dungeons or primals, we need you to go make millions of gil so you can spend millions of gil breaking your gear trying to overmeld it. then you might be allowed in, if you have the right jobs leveled, cuz we need you to switch job mid dungeon a few times for the best results.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

As for the recent FF, despite what your personal opinion is, FF XIII was a huge success. It's the 4th game when it come to sales. So yes, stepping out of their comfort zone was a good idea.

It wasn't a success from a gameplay perspective! You'd be hard pressed to find a single person that truly liked the interactive movie feel, and the combat and gameplay is often touted as one of the worst systems in the entire series to date!