Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[Ibi]

Reddit user totoro572 posted a translation of an interview between Game Watch and Yoshi-P yesterday.

It starts with a lot of info about 3.4, but further on Yoshi-P gives three very lengthy, detailed comments about the philosophy behind the design of FFXIV's end game.

The explanations particularly touch on a lot of topics that frequently come up for discussion here on the OF:

• Character growth other than gear
• Elemental strengths and weaknesses
• "There's nothing to do."/"I'm bored."
• Horizontal progress
• Dangerous open world

The tl;dr would be that the game is designed the way it is very intentionally and clamoring for large-scale overhauls or changes of philosophy are probably going to fall on deaf ears.

Here's the three responses:

Q. There's something i was curious about asking, and you know how people on the internet occasionally say "There's nothing to do in FFXIV" and i think that's because FFXIV's end game has no character growth involved in it. I assume that's because those players into that sort of character growth may enjoy it, but new players will have a hard time catching up.

A. I consider "If there's some sort of character development, the players into that stuff will enjoy it" is a faulty expression. The current FFXIV allows you to reach the level cap at a comparatively fast pace and players who feel they are "released from the burden of leveling a job" won't be able to enjoy the game as much if there is some sort of element that requires you to spend time on building up your character before you do other content. FFXIV has a wide range of players who all have different tastes. It's not like everyone can keep their motivation to run towards a long term goal that is extremely far away to grow their character.

Q. So not having elements to "let your character grow" is intentional.

A. I feel like people who are saying there's nothing to do or they are bored, are people who prefer the "FFXI type" game where the game itself is like end content, where there are almost unlimitted amount of elements to grow your character and keep building up. I do understand their feelings, but as a game that needs to fight on the global scale and this era makes it very difficult for us to choose that railway as an option.

The same applies to how, having elements like ice and fire on your weapon and equipment is rather meaningless with our game design. If the game system has elements as a huge factor and let's say you face a boss who is weak against a certain element. Those who don't have the actions or weapons that are effective will need to start back from re-learning a certain move or go get that fire weapon that melts the boss. That being said, this is actually really fun if you get into it. You feel like you're getting stronger as you work hard for it and you feel more satisfaction after beating that boss with your new weapon. However, you need to put in a lot of time before you fight this single boss and if the next patch adds a boss with a different weakness, you have to start from scratch and learn another move and go get that weapon that the boss is weak against.

If this continues to go on, there will be a moment where you lose focus and at one point you collapse. That sort of game system is highly addictive with fear and uplift alongside each other with the merit where it's harder to get bored because it forces you to continue spending most of your time. But, people nowadays don't have that time anymore. If FFXIV had that old school type system, with how busy i am now, i wouldn't be able to play the game. I'm not saying it's outdated, and the coming era might prefer those types of games and they still have a potential to succeed by changing the business scheme, but like i said before, it just doesn't fit FFXIV.
That doesn't mean we aren't doing anything. Like the Zodiac weapons and anima weapons, we'd like to implement a "time to win" type route, but that will not be the pillar of the game, not in FFXIV at least. This is just an imagination, but 10 years into the future we might shift into a team consisted of members who all truly love FFXIV and we might take our risk to release an expansion with that kind of character development involved in it, but at the moment it's impossible.

Q. So you're saying, not all the current players want a strong character build element in the game.

A. Even if we did change our policy, starting with new players having a hard time getting into the game, a majority of the current players will also be like "I was only able to keep playing because of the current system!" and the problem is, those people don't raise their voices and log in normally or just fade out after getting bored of the game. We need to watch out for those players with no voices. With the feed back, data from the logs, the duration of subs for each player in mind, it's a part of my job to balance the demand of the player base. You can't run an MMO with just "esthesiography", so it's like studying everyday and i'm always being sandwiched by both sides. I personally have an interest in trying out various things, but that by itself will just be my ego.

Back when we realeased "A Realm Reborn", it was a one shot deal so i looked at the market and situation then designed the game to revive FFXIV, but even now, it's not like i can just make 100% of what i'd like to design in this world of FFXIV, so i'm looking at the balance in between.

Not having an endless element to build on your character is intentional and it's designed so you build up your item level instead. You don't obtain that by gaining experience points. You can clear content, take one step at a time to gradually get stronger, or skilled players can challenge harder content to run in front of everyone else. After reaching as far as you can go, it's true there might be nothing for you to do. In that case you can play a different job, craft or gather or play other games while you wait for the next patch which is no problem at all. We have kept that stance from the beginning and it's the core of FFXIV, so have no intentions of changing that in the future. Of course, we do understand you will get bored of refreshing your item level at one point, but no matter what sort of game desing you choose, you'll eventually get bored. I personally want to present a speech on this topic if i have the opportunity because it's such a deep subject, but today i'll finish it here.

For further development of the game, we are okay with adding totally new attractions such as using a huge area to explore or creating an area where you get one shotted unless you take the enemies out one by one, even if you have the best gear, but we aren't in the stages to place this in the center as the core of the game.

[Musashidon]

the end is the best part it shows he really is thinking of everyone even though he won't make something super hard content the main attraction of the game he said he wants to do something like that to give those players something they will like too.

[Airget]

the end is the best part it shows he really is thinking of everyone even though he won't make something super hard content the main attraction of the game he said he wants to do something like that to give those players something they will like too.

Cause let's be real, at the end of the day, it's not really content to spend hours hoping RNG will give you a .01 to your combat skill, it's just a time sink. I'm glad stuff like that isn't put into the game.

[Welsper59]

Cause let's be real, at the end of the day, it's not really content to spend hours hoping RNG will give you a .01 to your combat skill, it's just a time sink. I'm glad stuff like that isn't put into the game.

Have to agree on that. Kinda glad it's not here. Skill up systems, at least for combat, are a niche function. I kind of enjoy skill up systems, but only to reasonable extents. WoW's old one that lasted until... mid TBC(?), which almost guaranteed skill ups per swing, somehow felt more like a timesink than XI's low skill up rate system. I guess it's that whole reward for effort thing and XI was originally designed for those gluttons for punishment (I'm definitely a masochist on that matter lol). Compared to the mentioned one in WoW, which was pretty much handed out to you by comparison.

Interesting how something as mundane as skill ups can feel so rewarding, which also extends to skilling up crafts in XI versus XIV. Not even gonna consider WoWs craft skill up system on that one. There were definitely points in time where I hated it though lol. "Thank ****ing gaud I capped, can GTFO now" was pretty common among people... which sounds an awful lot like pretty much anything to do with a quantifiable system (as well as RNG).

[Kaurie]

Yeah, I read that. I really disliked his response. It felt like he was dodging the question and used exaggerated examples to prove his stance.

However, I figured out a long time ago that requesting any major changes to any system will fall on deaf ears.

To be honest, a lot of that interview was a good read - but that part left a sour taste in my mouth.

[Genz]

It felt like he was dodging the question and used exaggerated examples to prove his stance.

Yeah, he's used to it. I know 2 other instances where he did the same, and I'm sure there are a lot more in other interviews.

Also, he's imagining there is a fundamental difference between the never-ending grind by XP in others RPG, and the never-ending grind by equipment in FFXIV.

-
To summarize the interview : making RPG is hard.
And he's not wrong, but his solution is to remove everything that make it hard, and it's actually what make them interesting. The result is a forgery with only some appearance of RPG. Plus, the "rpg like" features that remains aren't the most interesting ones (xp, level).

[bass9020]

This is why the game will only be a 1 month sub for every new patch for me from now on. Which is really sad since I've played everyday since the game relaunched. Plus Veteran rewards are stopping so no point to sub longer than needed, unless there new idea is something interesting (doubt it) but we will see.

[Genaxx]

You feel like you're getting stronger as you work hard for it and you feel more satisfaction after beating that boss with your new weapon. However, you need to put in a lot of time before you fight this single boss and if the next patch adds a boss with a different weakness, you have to start from scratch and learn another move and go get that weapon that the boss is weak against.

If this continues to go on, there will be a moment where you lose focus and at one point you collapse. That sort of game system is highly addictive with fear and uplift alongside each other with the merit where it's harder to get bored because it forces you to continue spending most of your time.

Pretty much what we have now with ilvl.

Of course, we do understand you will get bored of refreshing your item level at one point

People are already bored, they have been complaining about this for ages.

Also,

With the implementation of apartments, the personal demands for housing will be 100% met. Each ward has 1 apartment with 90 rooms, and we are ready to increase the number of rooms whenever we want. We designed it so 1 ward can have over 500 rooms per apartment, so it will definately be able to cover every player.

Ehh guess subs have dropped alot then.

[Clover_Blake]

People are already bored, they have been complaining about this for ages.

What people? You and some others like you? I for one love the current system. It lets players obtain good equipment by working everyday, no RNG involved; everyone's efforts are rewarded. It also gives us new goals to work for every few months (and new glamour possibilities). And last but not least, it's kind to newbies and alts, since those don't have to sweat blood in order to catch up with the veterans. So I'm personally very happy with the route Yoshida has taken.

[Kurogaea]

everyone's efforts are rewarded.

Actually your efforts mean nothing really. I can log in, do expert, log out, come the next day and repeatedly do that just to get the latest tome gear, making doing anything else like materia melding pointless. because the standard stats from that gear is all you need to do anything. Or I could sit around and wait for the hunt ls to go off and kill them while watching netflix and meet my daily cap quickly. Strongest gear now with perfect melds? Next patch you'll just be standard, nice job on that raid clear btw, shame your gear is now 10ilvls lower than the new tome gear

It all really makes sense to just to sub when a new patch drops. :/