Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[loreleidiangelo]

To be fair I believe it was meant to be if you don't like the core structure of the game it might be better for you to change the game, not that if you have a problem with a part of it in general

This is exactly what I mean. Horizontal progression is not coming to this game. Pure support roles are not coming to this game. Removal of instances and heavy focus on forced-grouping overworld content is not coming to this game. Massive timesinks without any catch-up safety mechanisms are not coming to this game.

Most suggestions I see are along that line, and they don't mesh with the dev's design philosophy. This interview pretty clearly states that they have no intention of altering that philosophy, so if this casual-oriented, vertical progression, gear treadmill game with huge focus on RP, QoL, and character appearances isn't what you like, you shouldn't hold your breath for it to change.

[Iromi]

This is exactly what I mean. Horizontal progression is not coming to this game. .

Yes it is, according to Yoshida:

Q. I'm sure there are players who think "I'm not enjoying this game if i'm not raiding"
Y. It might be because the Japanese MMO market hasn't had "high end raids" before and not being able to clear content even if you have the best gear is new for them. You have to have a certain player skill and spending time doesn't just reward you the victory and you need to put in all sorts of effort to achieve your goal. This can be tough at times, but you can get really excited when you clear it for the first time with 7 other people. This impact is what told the players "This is what FFXIV is like" and they have that image in their minds now, so the following problem we need to solve is, horizontal content.

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...needs_to_ask/?


Although I do not believe it until I see it, he still is entertaining the idea, and there are plenty of more recent interviews of him expressing the understanding of the need for horizontal type progression. I am not going to search and list them all obviously, but yea.

[loreleidiangelo]

Yes it is, according to Yoshida:



Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...needs_to_ask/?


Although I do not believe it until I see it, he still is entertaining the idea, and there are plenty of more recent interviews of him expressing the understanding of the need for horizontal type progression. I am not going to search and list them all obviously, but yea.

Thanks for the link; was an interesting read. Still, looking at the context, I'm not really sure his idea of "horizontal content" is the same as what most people are thinking when they say "horizontal progression". Even looking at that statement vs the statements in the OP, he doesn't seem to want things like RNG procs or elemental stats on gear because casual players can't keep up with the supposed expectations to farm it for group content. Maybe he means more progression paths for ilevel sidegrades? That might work, if secondary stats are ever redesigned to be more than just "everyone, even tanks and healers, just stack crit lol".

I actually agree with Kaurie about WoW's talent system, though. There's a site called Icy Veins that tells everyone what they SHOULD be using (pretty much for the hardest raid content and that's it), but because playstyles and content difficulty/length vary drastically in that game people actually find better talent combos than the IV builds sometimes, based on individual needs. I think XIV could adopt some MINOR horizontal aspects like that, but I'm not sure having 25 gearsets to do all endgame content will ever be a thing in this game.

[Reynhart]

I think XIV could adopt some MINOR horizontal aspects like that, but I'm not sure having 25 gearsets to do all endgame content will ever be a thing in this game.

Raid tends to have big single target most of the time. You could chose a single target build for one of your job, and an AoE build for another with the purpose to go faster in dungeons.

Depending of party composition, some builds might also differ in effectiveness, so a "static" job will chose different traits than a job meant to run with random people...

[Iromi]

snip.

Yeah, I agree as well. He will try to implement it..and it will probably not work as some imagine. If it was up to me I would like to see a balance like 1.x had. Some horizontal and some vertical. It was a perfect balance and I was able to beat and clear all content with each job. It was when he put in the ilvl that he screwed up any chance they had at putting back to when it was good.

We could choose from a few pieces of gear..and got a lot of stats and options to meld them and in the end there was never "one way" to do something, there was many. My ways of defeating Garuda with every job were just as efficient as those who would try to class stack ^^

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Yeah, I agree as well. He will try to implement it..and it will probably not work as some imagine. If it was up to me I would like to see a balance like 1.x had. Some horizontal and some vertical. It was a perfect balance and I was able to beat and clear all content with each job. It was when he put in the ilvl that he screwed up any chance they had at putting back to when it was good.

We could choose from a few pieces of gear..and got a lot of stats and options to meld them and in the end there was never "one way" to do something, there was many. My ways of defeating Garuda with every job were just as efficient as those who would try to class stack ^^

1.x didn't really have much gear to choose from tbf. You had AF, 1 set of crafted gear, and darklight at endgame. and to get crafted required millions and luck, and darklight required crafted gear, and the right jobs leveled so people would take you.

If you didn't have the crafted gear or darklight, no one would take you into the garuda fight. I never was able to complete it thanks to that, tho I was able to down moogle and Nael normal before the server save went into effect.

1.x was even more exclusive as to who got to do fights than 2.x+ was, and I'd hate to go back to that.

[MomomiMomi]

1.x didn't really have much gear to choose from tbf. You had AF, 1 set of crafted gear, and darklight at endgame. and to get crafted required millions and luck, and darklight required crafted gear, and the right jobs leveled so people would take you.

If you didn't have the crafted gear or darklight, no one would take you into the garuda fight. I never was able to complete it thanks to that, tho I was able to down moogle and Nael normal before the server save went into effect.

1.x was even more exclusive as to who got to do fights than 2.x+ was, and I'd hate to go back to that.

I don't see where this fear of exclusivity comes from. On our current system you either have the gear or you're excluded. You can't get any more exclusive than that.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I don't see where this fear of exclusivity comes from. On our current system you either have the gear or you're excluded. You can't get any more exclusive than that.

Eh, i was more annoyed than anything.

But people seem to have an idea that 1.x was way better than it actually was lol. "it had horizontal progressiona nd i could do fights the way i wanted!"

Except the community locked you into certain gear and if you didnt have blm and mnk leveled and geared you werent doing cutters cry. oh, all you have is the AF gear? which, to get, you needed parties for back then, it wasnt easy.
You aren't doing any of the dungeons or primals, we need you to go make millions of gil so you can spend millions of gil breaking your gear trying to overmeld it. then you might be allowed in, if you have the right jobs leveled, cuz we need you to switch job mid dungeon a few times for the best results.

[Iromi]

I don't see where this fear of exclusivity comes from. On our current system you either have the gear or you're excluded. You can't get any more exclusive than that.

Yeah...it is worse now if anything lol. Lot of raid groups expect you to have some really top tier gear, and people making farm PT for stuff run parsers all the time watching your damage...and you can have all the skill in the world in this game and still have crap DPS if you don't have a relevant ilvl. So many people I see in my various linkshells how they got kicked out of a PT because of their gear..or removed from a dungeon.

So yeah..I'd rather go back to what we had before, some choices but everything worked if the group would be slightly open minded.

Again, I don't know who they played with or what server where people were acting like that..but I easily defeated Garuda with my gimp PLD back in the day and a buncha random people who had AF. One of each job..etc. I cleared every dungeon/ex fight/raid, etc easily. Lmao I did ifrit in a simple cowl..haha.