Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

[Welsper59]

If you didn't want to discuss SAM in XI, you shouldn't have brought it up. You brought up SAM in XI, which introduced it as a discussion topic.

That it "didn't work" is a result of, again, XI's poor balance. PLD and NIN were just that much better. And we already know that NIN was never meant to tank. That it could tank doesn't suddenly make people think that the image of a ninja is that of a tank. What the players use things as has nothing to do with the job's design. The players are always going to use things in the way that benefits them the most, intended or not.

Tank balance got worse in endgame as they tried to balance the game around NIN tank existing, which made things far worse for every other job; even PLD couldn't keep up with the amount of damage being dished out anymore and had to resort to using /NIN just to stay alive. Even though other jobs had clear examples of tanking abilities, if you don't make them as good as the best, they're never going to be used, because the game has to be balanced around the best thing available to the players.


And it seems it has to be pointed out again that DPS doesn't have to be argued for. What are you going to say, that having Sentinel lets you stay alive longer, therefore letting you be a better dps, so Sentinel can be used as an argument that a job should be dps?

Yes, you can use that as a valid argument. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

What are you talking about? How did Sentinal come up at all from that statement?

I did mention before that people do understand that DPS is part of the equation for anything, but some were against the idea completely, as is the case of the first person I replied to (which you then followed up with your nonsense).

If there is one thing i have leares through all of these SAM DPS/ Tank threads it's this: The vocal majority would rather bastardize the concept of a real world warrior culture that for generations held up fundamental ideals of honor, sacrifice, and duty to others before and at the cost of their own lives (Bushido being not unlike a Knights Chivalry), for the sake of less role responsibility in a fantasy based mmo ...

The saddest part? In wanting to play the fantasy of a Samurai, they want to cut out a Samurais role in not only real world history but established fantasy aswell. The reason we don't have a sword DPS is simple, the sword iconography/ symbology denotes a hero. By all means prove me wrong, pictures of swords through the back are welcome, particularly Samurai attacking the enemy From behind.

Bolded and underlined for importance. This is the second time I'm repeating where it all came from, and you were part of it since the start or just mindlessly jumped in without understanding what was being said. I brought up SAM from XI in that they existed and they weren't nefarious or evil, but they still used swords/katana as a DPS type of role. Someone else even pointed out pirates to counter the backstab with swords remark. Faulty arguments everywhere. In came you with your arguments about me falsely saying all ronin are dishonorable and (out of nowhere) claiming I said they couldn't do a tank role.

Power corrupts, this is true for all people of all time periods of all ethnic back grounds. I was addressing the concept of both Bushido and Chivalry and the fantasy of adhering to those values to truly earn the name of Knight and Samurai. In this game we are Warriors of Light we are heroes, no class, no job in this game is depicted as corrupt because we as the players are depicted as paragons of those tenets.

Once again I say "In wanting to play the fantasy of a Samurai, You want to cut out a Samurai's role in not only real world history but established fantasy aswell", remember this is Final Fantasy by choosing to "unlock" those jobs we live out the fantasy of being those paragons of those virtues.

He said nothing about dps or tank. He said that Samurai will uphold Bushido, arguing against you saying ronin is a good example of SAM not being a tank and instead fighting dishonorably. Because if we get Samurai, it most likely isn't going to be dishonorable. That goes against the core of fantasy Samurai.

Notice his use of "role" there. When we're talking about roles, and the topic of tank is where he starts his arguments about RL history and fantasy lore, what do you think he's referring to by "role"? I said his arguments did not justify tank, because other examples exist of virtue and honor from outside the meatshield role. He even said "DPS" in his first comment. Don't lie and say he didn't say anything about DPS or tank.

So yeah, you can keep putting the blame on me, but the entire ridiculous argument came up because of you having failed to comprehend words.