Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

[LineageRazor]

Balipu the ninja dressed in broad daylight in a black bodysuit, charged his enemy like a madman while throwing lightning bolts and fire balls.

Nice counterattempt, but really, Balipu the ninja turned invisible, snuck up on his enemy, stabbed him in the back, and THEN while he was reeling beat him down with lightning bolts and fireballs.

Perhaps still not perfect ninja, but not Naruto either. Believe it! :P

[Balipu]

Nice counterattempt, but really, Balipu the ninja turned invisible, snuck up on his enemy, stabbed him in the back, and THEN while he was reeling beat him down with lightning bolts and fireballs.

Perhaps still not perfect ninja, but not Naruto either. Believe it! :P

Fair enough. But would you rather see the heroic samurai block attacks while a common criminal stabs his opponent in the back? That isn't much better either. Class fantasy might work during class quests but outside......a little less.

[Shippuu]

Definitely failed counterattempt, especially considering his example needed to ignore everything else about the job that's entirely in line with how a ninja would operate, in top of it being a poor example since that job is also already released.

Fair enough. But would you rather see the heroic samurai block attacks while a common criminal stabs his opponent in the back? That isn't much better either. Class fantasy might work during class quests but outside......a little less.

It's a good thing there isn't a "common criminal" job then, right? Even then he's keeping the enemy's attention to protect his friends and/or lord.

[Alacran]

It's a good thing there isn't a "common criminal" job then, right? Even then he's keeping the enemy's attention to protect his friends and/or lord.

If there is one thing i have leares through all of these SAM DPS/ Tank threads it's this: The vocal majority would rather bastardize the concept of a real world warrior culture that for generations held up fundamental ideals of honor, sacrifice, and duty to others before and at the cost of their own lives (Bushido being not unlike a Knights Chivalry), for the sake of less role responsibility in a fantasy based mmo ...

The saddest part? In wanting to play the fantasy of a Samurai, they want to cut out a Samurais role in not only real world history but established fantasy aswell. The reason we don't have a sword DPS is simple, the sword iconography/ symbology denotes a hero. By all means prove me wrong, pictures of swords through the back are welcome, particularly Samurai attacking the enemy From behind.

[Jandor]

The reason we don't have a sword DPS is simple, the sword iconography/ symbology denotes a hero.

Well, there is the roguish sword wielding swashbuckler archetype, that would fit a DPS role perfectly. Not very stereotypically Samurai-esque though, seems more Red mage to me.

[Welsper59]

If there is one thing i have leares through all of these SAM DPS/ Tank threads it's this: The vocal majority would rather bastardize the concept of a real world warrior culture that for generations held up fundamental ideals of honor, sacrifice, and duty to others before and at the cost of their own lives (Bushido being not unlike a Knights Chivalry), for the sake of less role responsibility in a fantasy based mmo ...

The saddest part? In wanting to play the fantasy of a Samurai, they want to cut out a Samurais role in not only real world history but established fantasy aswell. The reason we don't have a sword DPS is simple, the sword iconography/ symbology denotes a hero. By all means prove me wrong, pictures of swords through the back are welcome, particularly Samurai attacking the enemy From behind.

Well if you really want to go into the history aspect, many of them were VERY corrupt, particularly the ronin, towards civilians. Just like today, it wasn't exactly uncommon for civilians to hate the "police" for their treachery. Being power hungry was probably a much greater occurrence then, than it is now. There were no doubt very chivalrous or honorable samurai, like we see in movies or read about in stories, but there were absolutely very corrupt ones. They were human, after all. The same can be said for European Knights. So... I mean, a sword spilling innocent and dishonorable blood isn't exactly a farfetched idea for the "honorable" samurai class. Nobunaga is a pretty common go-to, though his extremely evil portrayal in modern stuff isn't exactly historically justified. His deeds were great, horrific in some cases (like the slaughtering of women and children), but great.

Hell, my mention of the ronin and common manipulation of history in fiction is actually enough of a reason to argue for a DPS label lol. Unless this game is trying to be factitious in recreating point for point historical themes, they don't exactly have to follow IRL history. Truth be told, the game would be boring as **** if I had to sit through history class again.

[Shippuu]

Hell, my mention of the ronin and common manipulation of history in fiction is actually enough of a reason to argue for a DPS label lol. Unless this game is trying to be factitious in recreating point for point historical themes, they don't exactly have to follow IRL history. Truth be told, the game would be boring as **** if I had to sit through history class again.

The thing is, this game isn't going to implement such unsavory representations of any archetype. We are the heroes. As you pointed out European Knights could be just as corrupt yet we play a very honorable and chivalrous version of them because that's the job fantasy. Warriors share similarities with vikings and barbarians yet our job fantasy of them took a shift in 3.0 to them being strongest when in defense of others. Dark Knights who wield darkness were made defenders of the downtrodden, fighting against corrupt officials. The rogue's guild has a very strong moral code and are basically a secret police keeping more unsavory pirates in check. Of all the jobs only black mage is of any kind of dubious-ness and even then you're fighting against more evil people while proving that black mages don't have to be destructive war mongers.

If they go the ronin route it would be more seven samurai than anything in terms of job fantasy than any kind of murderous assassin. And even then, the ronin archetype is not how samurai has ever been portrayed in a Final Fantasy game. Any time it's been there it's been specifically NOT called samurai. So if they do add that archetype they better damn well not call it samurai so we can get a proper tank samurai later

[Welsper59]

The thing is, this game isn't going to implement such unsavory representations of any archetype. We are the heroes. As you pointed out European Knights could be just as corrupt yet we play a very honorable and chivalrous version of them because that's the job fantasy. Warriors share similarities with vikings and barbarians yet our job fantasy of them took a shift in 3.0 to them being strongest when in defense of others. Dark Knights who wield darkness were made defenders of the downtrodden, fighting against corrupt officials. The rogue's guild has a very strong moral code and are basically a secret police keeping more unsavory pirates in check. Of all the jobs only black mage is of any kind of dubious-ness and even then you're fighting against more evil people while proving that black mages don't have to be destructive war mongers.

If they go the ronin route it would be more seven samurai than anything in terms of job fantasy than any kind of murderous assassin. And even then, the ronin archetype is not how samurai has ever been portrayed in a Final Fantasy game. Any time it's been there it's been specifically NOT called samurai. So if they do add that archetype they better damn well not call it samurai so we can get a proper tank samurai later

Yeah, I mean backstory is no doubt going to be all "friendship conquers all" and "good > evil" sort of direction for everything lol. That's just the very child friendly atmosphere the majority of this game entails. That's where the manipulation bit comes into play. Focus on the good, rather than the bad. To the point though, it's really hard to argue conclusively that SAM is better suited for one role over the other.

Bushido itself is not exclusive to working the mindset of this games tank role over DPS. Soldiers/warriors and war don't exactly exist separately. The blade and form is designed to strike and kill your opponent in one move, meaning in game terms, massive damage, as is the teachings of the importance of your strike with RL Iaido, which follows samurai combat prowess and psychology among other forms. Through this skill, they fight to protect. So the philosophy to protect is "tank"-like but the actual combat is DPS. Given that we have DPS jobs that are of moral code to fight to protect, it isn't a one-way philosophy exclusive to tanks. Even the FF series has made connection to Iaido, although obviously fictional lol.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were to add SAM, be it tank or DPS, that they called it Ronin (RON) lol. Our characters are more wanderer than serving a lord/master, sort of deal that's why. I really don't care which role the job takes, since I can see it being a tank, but I've seen and played it as DPS. Both works perfectly fine.

[MomomiMomi]

The blade and form is designed to strike and kill your opponent in one move, meaning in game terms, massive damage

Then we've got this guy over here...

[Alacran]

Well if you really want to go into the history aspect, many of them were VERY corrupt, particularly the ronin, towards civilians. Just like today, it wasn't exactly uncommon for civilians to hate the "police" for their treachery. Being power hungry was probably a much greater occurrence then, than it is now. There were no doubt very chivalrous or honorable samurai, like we see in movies or read about in stories, but there were absolutely very corrupt ones. They were human, after all. The same can be said for European Knights. So... I mean, a sword spilling innocent and dishonorable blood isn't exactly a farfetched idea for the "honorable" samurai class. Nobunaga is a pretty common go-to, though his extremely evil portrayal in modern stuff isn't exactly historically justified. His deeds were great, horrific in some cases (like the slaughtering of women and children), but great.

Hell, my mention of the ronin and common manipulation of history in fiction is actually enough of a reason to argue for a DPS label lol. Unless this game is trying to be factitious in recreating point for point historical themes, they don't exactly have to follow IRL history. Truth be told, the game would be boring as **** if I had to sit through history class again.

Power corrupts, this is true for all people of all time periods of all ethnic back grounds. I was addressing the concept of both Bushido and Chivalry and the fantasy of adhering to those values to truly earn the name of Knight and Samurai. In this game we are Warriors of Light we are heroes, no class, no job in this game is depicted as corrupt because we as the players are depicted as paragons of those tenets.

Once again I say "In wanting to play the fantasy of a Samurai, You want to cut out a Samurai's role in not only real world history but established fantasy aswell", remember this is Final Fantasy by choosing to "unlock" those jobs we live out the fantasy of being those paragons of those virtues.