Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

[Mugiawara]

Isn't video games ultimately about memorizing? Not only that, memorizing means nothing if you don't have the skills and efficiency in your job to pull it off.

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.
The same shxt be tiresome after 3 years all I gotta say.

[Welsper59]

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.

That raises the question of what you want to challenge you within the genre. This is a genre where you group with others to do things, so obviously single player endeavors don't fit the bill in those cases. If you don't want there to be a group consequence for a member failing their responsibility, then that's going to raise a flag of it being too easy on the player.

Memory is a difficult topic to really nitpick at. At its core, every single "skill" you acquire is based off of memory, specifically memorizing. Your ability (i.e. skill) to type is based on a collective of memories you use to know where keys are, where your hands are most comfortable being positioned, etc. Your reading skill is based on a collective of memories involving memorizing the alphabet, definitions, grammar, etc. Arguing about using a skill that isn't memory based is... questionable.

Going back to the wipe subject, that's what a group based goal involves. Some leniency is expected, but mess up too much or at a crucial time, then that's game right there. There is no meaningful group activity that is not without consequence for someone messing up. Group activities are about trust and... teamwork. The trust part going at least so far as to expect someone to handle mechanics that we are being given in the game, not so far as to trust them with your kids or anything lol. If they can't handle it, then that's it. MMORPGs breed failure just as much as they do success... if not moreso on failure lol. That's why group oriented achievements are celebrated so much, as the failure rate is much higher when additional variables are at play.

[Velhart]

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.
The same shxt be tiresome after 3 years all I gotta say.

From what I hear in here, it sounds like people don't know what they want, only what they don't want.

[Hakuro89]

I personally don't see what was wrong with the Coil format. I pugged it all the way through T13.
To be honest, I always found the idea of this 'baby raid' as a free trip through the high tier raid's story as pretty dumb, because finishing the story was always part of the accomplishment of completing it for me.
(Though I really don't care about Alexander's story because the story was garbage compared to Coil, this was half the reason why I was so unmotivated to do it).

To me the savage raid should be executed like it was in Second Coil- significantly higher difficulty with titles as rewards rather than gear.
The difficulty of Midas Savage was perfect for what the high tier raid should be, with Gordias Savage (pre-nerf) being the ideal "Savage" tier.

The problem with trying to cater to everybody is that you'll -always- be disappointing somebody.

[Brian_]

Yes you only need to memorize for any of these fights. You get the prey in A5s you go to point B you don't get it stand outa the way of point B that's it you either have to do the thing or your off the hook its executed in the same manner regardless of who has it memorization is all it takes to clear A8s you just need all 8 people to memorize it and execute it perfectly or you wipe there's no middle ground which what people have been trying to show you. the amount of reaction as you claim this calls for is look in the upper right hand corner of the screen for you debuff. Did you memorize what your supposed to do with said debuff. No? You wipe the raid or die which leads to a wipe because the team can't recover from the death. You do remember what to do with said debuff? Do the thing and hope the other 7 members of your group did there things they have to do as well or we're back to square one.

They don't need to show me anything. I've cleared the content first hand. I can show myself.

And, as I've said, based off reality, they are wrong and so are you. When point B is constantly changing based on other variables, it's no longer simple memorization. It's reacting to a situation and adjusting. If you run to a set point every time during bomberman bombs, you will die something like 92% of the time. Even if it's a set response, you are still reacting / responding to a changing fight.

In A8S, you don't need flawless execution. You can mess up mechanics and recover. Even in Elysium's world first clear, they messed up mechanics and had an arguably inefficient strategy. With 20 more ilevels of gear things only got easier. Things like understanding the variables with attachments and how they align with heights, chakram dodging, and P7's mechanic barf lean much more heavily towards the reactionary side of the spectrum.

[Brian_]

And, to the people complaining about not being able to carry a group or getting upset about needing 7 people to clear content.

First off, welcome to multiplayer games. If you wanted a single-player experience, you chose the wrong type of content to challenge. The entire point of raiding is the team experience. If you don't want to deal with a team, that's a choice you can make. Just don't feel entitled to clearing the content, then.

Secondly, if you truly are a very skilled player and want to do the most you can to negate the mistakes of others, then lead. Call the mechanics, remind specific people what to do on the fly, tell people what adjustments need to be made on the spot, and do that all while still performing well enough to make up for a few under performing team mates. I see many people talking about 1 person's inability to influence 7 other people but anyone who has ever raided with a very good raid caller (or just DBM or ACT call-outs) knows that hand holding exists. Having an elite DPS player can easily enable a weaker player to focus less on their own DPS in favor of mechanical execution.

When my group recruited a new MNK who didn't have any experience with Savage, we fast tracked him to A8S in a week. How? By being in his ear and making sure to keep him calm, focused, and aware of what's happening and what could happen. When our SCH was being bad at the game and cost us 2-3 weeks of A8S progression, we didn't just abandon them. We did the research for them and worked out a plan for how to properly shield and mitigate the damage in P3-7.

Maybe if people did more than hope, worry, and blame and actually tried to be the difference they want to see, the problem with group execution would be better. This is exactly why people say NA and EU PuGs are doomed because of their selfishness and individualism.

[Kallera]

Players have a lack of tools to assist when a fight goes wrong. Many tools that have been suggested either facilitate "calling people out" or filtering out people in pf, which hasn't taken off as well as hoped. That is not some standard of multiplayer games, and it is a source of frustration and suspicion among the party. One can only blame culture so much. Even the JP have made note of the "team jump rope" mechanics that have been in one fight after another, and have only gotten more complex with HW. So its "forgiving" if you are in the top percentage of world first players? How convienient for them, but the majority of us are not going to be in that percentile. Certainly not in the direction HW was going.
By closing the gap of performance, the devs can design content that more people will be able to partake and bring their buddies in, instead of having to choose between them and clears.

[Airget]

It's tricky, because SE is trying to please people who want a huge challenge, but then those people who want the huge challenge want to segregate other people out of a story. They want their cake and eat it to because they are demanding plot to be given to those who "deserve" it.

The problem with that though is by making a plot point that only a small handful can enjoy you make it's impact to the overall story less significant because it because harder to implement those plot points into the main story.

That's why with 3.4 the Coil plot point is just an afterthought/mention you will get if you had done it, compared to Alexander which may be a required completion later down the road but it's because of it's "Story mode" version that it makes it a bit easier to do.

I feel like if players want something unique in Savage content, then it shouldn't be based around them winning just because they finally got their IL high enough, it should be based around them conquering the content at the min IL.

Make an achievement/Title for completing all of X Savage content on min IL and add vanity gear to show off that ya you got a piece of untradeable armor that only people who were able to complete the Savage content at min IL can get.

The current loot that can be obtained for the most part can be gotten by anyone, minus the dyed weapons or the mount but the minion or furniture anyone is free to obtain so the flair of uniqueness is left to dyeing gear you hope you enjoy the design to and a mount. However if unique items like the kind you can obtain from Feast were added to Savage Content, like say Alexander's Coat or something to that extent. It would add more flair of rewards that players could show off and be like "Ya I got this from beating Savage content at min IL"

This is coming from XI, people didn't do the hardest content for story, they did it for the loot, to obtain a piece of gear that made themselves stronger and showed off that they took down the boss attached to that gear. You don't currently get that in XIV because of how content is done, it's mostly tied to Mounts, but you can't wear a bunch of mounts at once unlike gear that you can glamour and show off in dungeons.

[enthauptet]

And, to the people complaining about not being able to carry a group or getting upset about needing 7 people to clear content.

First off, welcome to multiplayer games. If you wanted a single-player experience, you chose the wrong type of content to challenge. The entire point of raiding is the team experience. If you don't want to deal with a team, that's a choice you can make. Just don't feel entitled to clearing the content, then.

This also ties in with it being hard to find replacement members for groups (or start groups) on small servers too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

From what I hear in here, it sounds like people don't know what they want, only what they don't want.

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be Bloodborne; a notoriously difficult game. Despite being touted for being brutally punishing, you can make mistakes during boss fights and still recover. From that point, it becomes a game of dodging and funneling a future need for Potions' Anonymous. Are you likely to bounce back? Probably not, but you can. Savage does not allow for those mistakes. You must play nearly perfect or you'll not only die, but wipe your entire group. The latter is what I suspect irks people far more.

snip

It's fine to clamor around the "git gud" mentality, however we're looking at a 1.16% clear rate. That is utterly abysmal to the extent the devs are literally wasting their time with Savage. Demands for player improvement to this extreme is being met with "Nah. It's not fun. I'll do something else." No matter how you divvy it up, people rarely fancy instant death mechanics or being routinely punished due to a razor thin margins for error. Citing Elysium means little because they are a step above almost everyone else. You do not balance content around hardcore players, especially world progression types. They make up among the smallest percentage of your fanbase.

You can blame NA/EU individuality all you fancy, but there comes a point when you have to look at the content itself. If enough people aren't enjoying it, then it's failed to accomplish the intended goal. NA/EU tend to be far more picky regarding their content consumption hence why grinds are frequently vilified this side of the ocean yet more acceptable in JP. Square has to cater to both mindsets, lest they continue to see content ignored by a massive portion of their audience.