Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

[Velhart]

snip

Isn't video games ultimately about memorizing? Not only that, memorizing means nothing if you don't have the skills and efficiency in your job to pull it off.

[Mugiawara]

Isn't video games ultimately about memorizing? Not only that, memorizing means nothing if you don't have the skills and efficiency in your job to pull it off.

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.
The same shxt be tiresome after 3 years all I gotta say.

[Welsper59]

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.

That raises the question of what you want to challenge you within the genre. This is a genre where you group with others to do things, so obviously single player endeavors don't fit the bill in those cases. If you don't want there to be a group consequence for a member failing their responsibility, then that's going to raise a flag of it being too easy on the player.

Memory is a difficult topic to really nitpick at. At its core, every single "skill" you acquire is based off of memory, specifically memorizing. Your ability (i.e. skill) to type is based on a collective of memories you use to know where keys are, where your hands are most comfortable being positioned, etc. Your reading skill is based on a collective of memories involving memorizing the alphabet, definitions, grammar, etc. Arguing about using a skill that isn't memory based is... questionable.

Going back to the wipe subject, that's what a group based goal involves. Some leniency is expected, but mess up too much or at a crucial time, then that's game right there. There is no meaningful group activity that is not without consequence for someone messing up. Group activities are about trust and... teamwork. The trust part going at least so far as to expect someone to handle mechanics that we are being given in the game, not so far as to trust them with your kids or anything lol. If they can't handle it, then that's it. MMORPGs breed failure just as much as they do success... if not moreso on failure lol. That's why group oriented achievements are celebrated so much, as the failure rate is much higher when additional variables are at play.

[Velhart]

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.
The same shxt be tiresome after 3 years all I gotta say.

From what I hear in here, it sounds like people don't know what they want, only what they don't want.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

From what I hear in here, it sounds like people don't know what they want, only what they don't want.

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be Bloodborne; a notoriously difficult game. Despite being touted for being brutally punishing, you can make mistakes during boss fights and still recover. From that point, it becomes a game of dodging and funneling a future need for Potions' Anonymous. Are you likely to bounce back? Probably not, but you can. Savage does not allow for those mistakes. You must play nearly perfect or you'll not only die, but wipe your entire group. The latter is what I suspect irks people far more.

snip

It's fine to clamor around the "git gud" mentality, however we're looking at a 1.16% clear rate. That is utterly abysmal to the extent the devs are literally wasting their time with Savage. Demands for player improvement to this extreme is being met with "Nah. It's not fun. I'll do something else." No matter how you divvy it up, people rarely fancy instant death mechanics or being routinely punished due to a razor thin margins for error. Citing Elysium means little because they are a step above almost everyone else. You do not balance content around hardcore players, especially world progression types. They make up among the smallest percentage of your fanbase.

You can blame NA/EU individuality all you fancy, but there comes a point when you have to look at the content itself. If enough people aren't enjoying it, then it's failed to accomplish the intended goal. NA/EU tend to be far more picky regarding their content consumption hence why grinds are frequently vilified this side of the ocean yet more acceptable in JP. Square has to cater to both mindsets, lest they continue to see content ignored by a massive portion of their audience.

[KarstenS]

Perhaps a more apt comparison would be Bloodborne; a notoriously difficult game. Despite being touted for being brutally punishing, you can make mistakes during boss fights and still recover. From that point, it becomes a game of dodging and funneling a future need for Potions' Anonymous. Are you likely to bounce back? Probably not, but you can. Savage does not allow for those mistakes. You must play nearly perfect or you'll not only die, but wipe your entire group.

There is room for mistakes and recovery. Starting with really alot room in A5, getting lower and lower in the following turns. Our A5-7 kills in the last weeks were far away form playing close to perfect. They've looked awful. But they still were kills. If there would be no room for recovery, we would not get into A8 each week.

[Yukiko]

There is room for mistakes and recovery. Starting with really alot room in A5, getting lower and lower in the following turns. Our A5-7 kills in the last weeks were far away form playing close to perfect. They've looked awful. But they still were kills. If there would be no room for recovery, we would not get into A8 each week.

"Team jump rope": It is possible to continue/recover when one falls, but that's very rare to happen!
Your Example doesn't hit the point because AS5-AS7 is not designed for a full iLvL240 party

[Brian_]

"Team jump rope": It is possible to continue/recover when one falls, but that's very rare to happen!

It's not rare at all. You are either lying or completely oblivious to the truth. You can mess up a lot and still clear.

Your Example doesn't hit the point because AS5-AS7 is not designed for a full iLvL240 party

What point? The only point that's relevant is that Midas Savage is still our end-game raid and SE has given us access to i240 gear to help clear it. That's reality.

[KarstenS]

Your Example doesn't hit the point because AS5-AS7 is not designed for a full iLvL240 party

This was not the question.

And: Currently everybody, who wants to raid, should be 240. Not 240 BiS, but 240. So what should be wrong with my opinion? I'm (nearly) in the same boat gear wise, like everybody else. Even before City of Mhach everybody could "overgear" A5 and A6 without doing them.

BTW2: At our first A5S kill we were beolow the minimum iLvl the (later introduced) raidfinder is showing and even then the kill wasn't without mistakes and recovery.