Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

[Lorielle]

Having played FFXI, I'd dare to say you have way more faith in MMO raiders than is justified.

Depending on what you played up to is what is at stake here in XI. Because the only time I've -ever- seen "You need X to get in" was probably when Delve was in the game and probably later down the road with Aegis/O-Chain Paladins. However, those weren't exactly the flood of parties. You could also get into groups a myriad of ways. Another job. Another scapegoat(example I couldn't get into Delve because I didn't have a Delve weapon, but I worked as a Re-Raise bot until I could afford it). Now such things aren't as demanding here in XIV. No one cares what gear you have exactly. At minimum, it's ilvl and at best, it's the ilvl required to beat the content. People only ask for higher ilvl to minimize the difficulty of the content because not a lot of people are 'skilled' enough to handle it as if it came out day one.

As I mentioned and others, if these parties bother you, make your own party. Something takes forever to get into? Make your own party. Don't like the rules of another leader? Make another party. There's so much you can do in gaming if you just 'Take the Initiative'. Except there, there's nothing to take the initiative to.

[zosia]

I know for a FACT you and others who think this way would put "[insert raid-level gear] or GTFO" in the PF comments if SE followed your selfish suggestions. What other reason would you have for removing Tomestone gear except for creating a chasm between filthy commoners and the noble raiders?

Really? This is just more HC player demonizing. All you are doing is creating a "bad guy" raider stereotype to support your argument.

Lets be honest, raiders are not playing with you most of the time because people don't want to teach new players, regardless of play style, and raiders also sell content. Also, if a raid team has way better gear, what makes you think that they would be in PF anyway? These raiders have a static after all, they are not going to be doing sophia EX initially in PF.

Having played FFXI, I'd dare to say you have way more faith in MMO raiders than is justified.

yes, because MMO raiders are such bad people. /s

You might want to go to home depo and get a wider brush to paint these broad strokes with. Your hyperbolic over sensitive comments are adding nothing of value to this discussion. Your argument amounts to "all raiders are bad, so give them nothing!"

Your terrible outlook on raiders perpetuates a game climate that has end game progression in a choke hold. Nothing is meaningful in this game because players like you want everything to be a participation ribbon. You are literally killing your own game, not even casual players can be bothered to log in these days due to how underwhelming this game is and how poorly it motivates players.

but go on, evil raiders are the real problem, lol.

[thegreatonemal]

snip

Says the person talking from the opposite extreme. The both of you are the problem.

[zosia]

Says the person talking from the opposite extreme. The both of you are the problem.

exactly what extreme have I taken? where have I demonized casual players? When I have said that casual players don't deserve anything? Please show me where I throw the entire casual community under the bus the way hayward is throwing the raid community under the bus.

I often suggest two progression paths for raiders and non-raiders respectively. Unlike Hayward, I actually make suggestions for BOTH parts of the community rather than just saying raiders should have absolutely everything.

People like you are the problem. You are assuming that just because I say something you don't like that I don't want to see the casual community flourish. Hayward would happily hurt the raiding community because he dislikes those players. Grow a thicker skin.

[Velhart]

Says the person talking from the opposite extreme. The both of you are the problem.

I don't think you see the big picture here. All three forms of play need to be balanced. Casual, Midcore, and Hardcore. Right now motivation is dead on all levels. For one reason or another, each style of play has a severe lack of motivation. A large contributing factor to that is how much this game hands out everything to you for doing borderline nothing. Mindless dungeons with no depth, relics that only have grind content, overly easy mode for raids.

When you make everything a participation reward, then all three levels of play lose motivation to progress. At least making dungeons more challenging (like 2.0 Amdapor Keep/Wanderer's Palace), more trials to overcome in relic (Chimera/Hydra), and so on are what people need to stay focus and motivated. Its like developers want you to get really bored before even the odd patch hits.

A restructure of how we progress is very much needed. Casuals need proper motivation to advance without everything handed to them, Midcore need more variety of challenges, and Hardcore need something to overcome that only the higher skill of player can take on.

Basically do what they did at the start of 2.0. A lot of good ideas there were tarnished because special snowflakes can't be compelled to step out of their safe zone in the slightest bit.

[Jynx]

A lot of good ideas there were tarnished because special snowflakes can't be compelled to step out of their safe zone in the slightest bit.

To be honest I think this situation has poisoned the entire games design process.

[Velhart]

To be honest I think this situation has poisoned the entire games design process.

It was more of an exaggeration. I really do wonder however why some believe they are entitled to the same items and rewards as hard working raiders. Kind of baffling.

[thegreatonemal]

It was more of an exaggeration. I really do wonder however why some believe they are entitled to the same items and rewards as hard working raiders. Kind of baffling.

No one has said that though. all I've heard in this thread is take all gear out of normal mode raids and content if casual players want to progress their characters start raiding or wait three months from the current patch then you can get some gear.

[Vantol]

all I've heard in this thread is take all gear out of normal mode raids and content if casual players want to progress their characters start raiding or wait three months from the current patch then you can get some gear.

Again, what is wrong with that? If I want to have a car, I get job and start working hard. If I don't want to work hard, I'm not getting a car no matter how much I want it. I really can't wrap my head around how people don't understand or don't agree with that simple rule.

In adequate progression structure you wouldn't be supposed to getting read-level gear in 2 years. Here you can get it in 3 months and even that is not enough! What the ...

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Again, what is wrong with that? If I want to have a car, I get job and start working hard. If I don't want to work hard, I'm not getting a car no matter how much I want it. I really can't wrap my head around how people don't understand or don't agree with that simple rule.

In adequate progression structure you wouldn't be supposed to getting read-level gear in 2 years. Here you can get it in 3 months and even that is not enough! What the ...

You're basically asking the developers to take out something from non raiders and give nothing but a 3 month delay in return. In my view, if there's nothing for non raiders to do if you go for the trickle down effect for gear, that could affect subs as well. If you couldn't tell, people hate waiting. If people can't get raid gear along side savage raid gear, then what do you propose that the delay should offer other than a waiting game?